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Brian Mayer Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 June 2007 Posts: 216
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 1
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I don't know...too obviously manipulative? Too Hollywood "smart sexy"? ****
Yet, if we want to increase the attraction to kids, it's wise to look at what trends are popular with that market. Watch The Suite Life and Hanna Montana and all the other shows and see how the kids are represented.
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Emery Calame Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5773
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | 2
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Oops...did I wreck your point? :)
Some kid gets betrayed but survives and convinces some nomads to to shelter him and fight for his eventual politcal ascendancy.
Now, do you REALLY know what happened in Dune?
It seems to me when you have a really complicated story truncating it almost blindly is not the problem. It's making it understandable to a new reader WITHOUT seriously truncating it to the point where it contains almost no useful information. And the more information there is to convey and the weirder and less compatible all that information is (like two death/rebirths in 3 years) the harder that task becomes.
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Brian Mayer Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 June 2007 Posts: 216
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 8:19pm | IP Logged | 3
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You are right, Emery, you shouldn't. There has to be a context to make the information useful. With your Dune example, is the context to get a reader to jump into the second book without reading the first? Or perhaps the second mini-series? Are they trying to get into it on their own, or will you be sitting there watching it with them? Well, in some of those contextual situations, you may have just provided enough information that they can join. In others, maybe not.
Could a new reader have jumped into Spider-Man three to six months ago and been told absolutely nothing about the Spider-Totem, Sins Past, The Other, House of M, or any other storyline from the past handful of years? I think so. I think, based on the context of what was going on, you could have told that new reader "the world has found out who Spider-Man is, he is wanted as an outlaw, and his Aunt has been shot and in critical condition," and they would have had enough information to read the book and follow along. So what you say makes sense that we don't want to create blind truncations but should rather consider what is going on.
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Eric White Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 October 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1072
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 8:22pm | IP Logged | 4
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My condolences to Gregg on his loss. Losing a parent is a very tough thing
to do deal with so I hope he's okay.
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Bruce Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4797
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 9:46pm | IP Logged | 5
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"I'm hip! Earrings on dudes and cutie-pie bangs and big nerdy glasses on a hot chick!"
***************
In all fairness, Spider-Man comics have always reflected the current pop culture trends. Don't forget that Mary Jane worked as a go-go dancer in the late '60s and Harry Osborn sported a Fu Manchu mustache for a time. Don't see how him wearing an earring is any different.
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 9:56pm | IP Logged | 6
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I have to agree with what Bruce just said. Marvel has always followed the styles of the times in their books.
We just don't like it because we're old.
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Jeff Albertson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 24 March 2007 Location: United States Posts: 451
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 10:04pm | IP Logged | 7
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Which issue had the "Stop pissing them off" story and when did Grell indicate that the characters were related? From the comments, I presume it wasn't the same story, but I'd be interested in reading both. Although the relation by blood seems the kind of pointless noodling around characters that adds baggage and makes the shared universe so much smaller.
Grell's one of those creators I like best when working on his own creations - Warlord, Starslayer, Jon Sable were all quite entertaining, but his Green Arrow wasn't nearly as good. His Iron Man run is best forgotten.
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Matthew McCallum Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 July 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2710
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 10:24pm | IP Logged | 8
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Brian:
Sorry, I'm with Emery on this one. You can reduce the synopsis to one line,
and the kid will go "Cool, give me some more detail!" Or they'll start reading
after your single sentence and they'll come back to you with an endless
stream questions wondering what the heck is going on. At some point you're
hip deep in a swamp of explanations.
None of those series are a good jumping on point for new readers.
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 10:28pm | IP Logged | 9
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Every ISSUE used to be a good "jumping on point."
It's not that hard. They managed to do it for decades.
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Matthew McCallum Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 July 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2710
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 10:46pm | IP Logged | 10
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Jeff,
Green Arrow (1989) 27-28 feature the Warlord crossover. I believe the "Stop
doing it!" punch was the cliffhanger at the end issue 27. I don't recall it
being established there that the two were related; that may have happened
later on or my memory might be fuzzy.
Here's a summary of the two issues that I found online that hits some of the
highlights:
Dave's Long Box
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Matthew McCallum Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 July 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2710
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:01pm | IP Logged | 11
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Amen, Aaron. That's EXACTLY the point I'm trying to make. These
continuity fix arcs are so up the fan boy tail pipe they are virtually
incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't been reading comics for ages (or to
anyone unwilling to invest in a few hundred dollars of trade paperbacks).
There used to be an understanding that EVERY issue was somebody's FIRST
issue and you wrote comics that were accessible every month. But when
you're now in the business of "growing roses" because it's all going to be
collected in a trade edition...
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134836
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Posted: 21 January 2008 at 6:51am | IP Logged | 12
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Marvel has always followed the styles of the times in their books.
••
But following the styles of the times used to mean keeping the eyes turned
outwards. You want monsters? We'll give you monsters! You want
Kung Fu? We'll give you Kung Fu! You want space opera? We'll give you
space opera!
When did the eyes turn inward? When did it become all about self-reference
and navel-gazing?
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