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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 1
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QUOTE:
And I discovered something totally counter-intuitive. The pages with more panels were faster to draw! I don't think that experience is unique to me. Maybe it's something these slow-poke modern artists should learn! |
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Makes sense to me - the more panels there are, the less detail is needed, or even possible, generally. However, I wonder if the mentality of artists today even centers on such things anymore. The focus seems to be less on telling story (and telling it in timely fashion) and more on drawing pretty pictures. They want to draw more detail, to show the reader how nicely then can draw (and they don't seem to care that it will require 4 or fewer panels) at the expense of any logical story flow or of having any meat to the story.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 2
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Regarding Reed and Ben in WW II, in Marvel Two-In-One's final issue, Ben does make mention of their time there in a short, elegant fashion that I thought cleared up the whole question. While I wasn't happy with the alternative explanation offered for Gruenwald's Divergent Realities theory, Ben has a little throwaway line after Reed has explained that "...any attempt to travel back to one's own past activates some kind of Temporal Safety-Valve. Thus, the traveller is actually shunted sideways, into a universe almost identical to his own." Ben goes to look at Dr. Doom's time machine, reflecting, "'Course if Reed's right about this doo-hickey not bein' a time machine, that kinda raises a whole lot more questions than it answers... I wonder if we've ever really travelled in time? Heck, maybe I never became Blackbeard, or fought in World War II, or... Boy, this is real confusin'!" Whether this was added by the editor, I don't know, but it resolved the question for me in an economical fashion. Of course, now someone at Marvel coming across that line would realize the possibilities for a six, maybe even twelve issue series exploring the whys and wherefores of Reed and Ben's little jaunt into history...
Edited by Brian Hague on 20 January 2008 at 12:04pm
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Brian Mayer Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 June 2007 Posts: 216
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 3
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Could you imagine explaining this stuff to new comic book readers? *****
It doesn't seem any more difficult than something like this. A guy, his college roommate, the guys girls friend, and her little brother decide to break into a government facility and steal a space shuttle. They manage to pull it off without a hitch, but apparently this super-smart guy (should have mentioned the super-smart part in the beginning, huh?) forgot to put enough shielding into his design of the space shuttle. (I should have mentioned that the super-smart guy was also the designer. My bad.) Anyway, it turns out that cosmic rays start infiltrating the ship and everything goes haywire and the shuttle is going to have to make a crash landing. Now, luckily, people still had piece of mind that they were able to crash land the ship from orbit and walk away unharmed. But, in the end they ended up developing strange powers because super-smart guy wasn't smart enough to have enough shielding installed in the space ship. And, the government decided to write off the stolen space shuttle as mearly a joy ride by a bunch of kookie kids and they get to go on their way as long as they promise to never, ever do it again.
Oh, their arch nemisis was super-smart guys former college roommate who has gone on to take over a small, eastern european country even though he was expelled from college over an explosion. See kids, who needs a degree?
My point is, for those missing it, any story can be as convoluted or as easy to pass along to new readers. It just depends on the effort one is willing to make.
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 4
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What's convoluted about the FF origin?
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Brad Brickley Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8290
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:45pm | IP Logged | 5
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Grell seems to have a certain disdain for secret I.D.'s and other comicbook conventions. His run on Green Arrow was similar to the description of the Iron Man issues. I don't even think Green Arrow is called Green Arrow the whole run Grell was on. I like Grell's own creations or fantasy comics best. My first experience with Grell is Legion and Warlord. Really liked it then, but think his Jon Sable is best, he seems to like doing his own stuff.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134835
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:53pm | IP Logged | 6
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What's convoluted about the FF origin?
••
Nothing. Unfortunately, various writers over the years have sought to
"explain" things -- usually without going back to the source. Such as,
attempts to "explain" why the FF were in such a rush to get to the Moon
when, in "Marvel Time", Neil Armstrong went there years earlier. The
answer lies in the first issue, which hardly anybody seems to read. They
weren't bound for the Moon -- they were bound for the stars! (I can
almost hear Stan making this choice -- "We'd better say 'the stars'. The
way they're going, the Commies may have gotten to the Moon before the
issue comes out!"
The whole business of "stealing the rocket" and why Johnny and Sue were
along I covered easily by making it a private operation, with some
government funding.
It's all easy, if you want it to be!
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Stéphane Garrelie Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 05 August 2005 Location: France Posts: 4260
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 7
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…Grell's reign…
••
Wow. I didn't even know Grell had done IRON MAN!!
********************
He was only writing (maybe some art on one or two issue, but that was clearly the exception. And i'm not even sure if he did.)
I didn't like what i read of his run (and yet before reading the actual stories I was really happy to learn he was the one to get the assignement.)
To me the only positive thing in his run was a new Mandarin, that i liked.
The artist was ok too.
Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 20 January 2008 at 12:57pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134835
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 12:54pm | IP Logged | 8
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My first experience with Grell is Legion and Warlord.
••
I still recall a wee grin when I read Grell's connecting of Green Arrow to
Warlord by blood. One of the great "Up Yours, Fanboy!" moments.
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Matthew McCallum Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 July 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2710
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 1:01pm | IP Logged | 9
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Brian,
Not a fair comparison. Go back and read Matt Hawes' post (where that
quote was trimmed), and you'll see he was responding Emery's post
summarizing some of the recent, convoluted story arcs (i.e. grand fixes,
which means you've got to know what was broken in the first place to
fully appreciate the fix).
Now, here's your job: figure out how to give a summary of, say, Infinite
Crisis geared to a 10-13 year-old whose only exposure to superheroes
thus far is through television and movies (and maybe the Johnny DC
titles), and do it in such a way that doesn't make their eyes glaze over and
does entice them to start reading those comics books.
"Well, first there was Earth 2, and then there was Earth 1 -- yeah, I know,
2 comes after 1, but go with me on this. And then there was Earth 3, and
then Earth Prime, and Earth S came next I think, and then Earth Fawcett
and... Well, anyway, there were a lot of Earths, all the same, but all
different, okay? And then there was this crisis -- no, not the Infinite
Crisis, that came later. Well, it WAS an infinite crisis, just not THE Infinite
Crisis. First came the Crisis on Infinite Earths. See, all the earths got
merged into one and all the old stories didn't happen. Well, they DID
happen but just different from the way they were published. Well, some
happened, and some didn't happen, it depends on... Hey, where you
going? I was just getting to the good part about Zero Hour!"
Edited by Matthew McCallum on 20 January 2008 at 1:08pm
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Eric White Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 October 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1072
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | 10
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He was only writing (maybe some art on one or two issue, but that was
clearly the exception. And i'm not even sure if he did.)
***********
Grell drew three issues of his Iron Man run.
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Matthew McCallum Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 July 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 2710
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 11
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On Warlord/Green Arrow connection, I loved in the story how Travis was
having the crap beaten out of him all over Seattle by people mistaking him
for Ollie. Then when the two finally meet, Travis socks Oliver in the jaw and
says "Whatever you've been doing to piss these people off... cut it out!!"
What a wonderful moment!
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Brad Brickley Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8290
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Posted: 20 January 2008 at 2:15pm | IP Logged | 12
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It was pretty funny Matthew. I think that those are the moments that Grell really shines.
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