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Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
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| Posted: 24 September 2007 at 4:44pm | IP Logged | 1
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QUOTE:
| Norman Osborne was a master seducer? With that hair?!? I don't think so. |
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Bit of a bad day at work for me (one of those days where everything went wrong). Felt stressed on the way home and still do. Until now.
Thomas, that quote of yours put a smile on my face, it made me laugh. Humour is good and I needed it tonight. Thank you.
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Glenn Greenberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6746
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| Posted: 24 September 2007 at 6:39pm | IP Logged | 2
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<<<"It just kinda... happened.">>>
Yeeesh.
And how much did you want to put your fist through a wall after getting THAT satisfying explanation?
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Larry Morris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 622
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| Posted: 24 September 2007 at 6:52pm | IP Logged | 3
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<<And I agree - I don't think Gwen needed "knocking off her pedestal." Sure, she came up every now and then, as she should. Gwen is an important part of the Spider-Man mythos. But I never got the sense she was being overemphasized after her death. >>
Exactly. Let's not exaggerate how often she was mentioned. IMO, considering her history with Peter, and how she died, her name being brought up now and then was completely understandable.
<<Bottom line: JMS took a beloved character and did his best to ruin her.>>
I said this in a thread where I discussed Morrison and the X Men, I try not to ever ascribe negative writer
intent to stories I don't like. I don't think JMS deliberately set out to damage Gwen's character. That doesn't mean that I thought it worked in any way or am any less offended by it, though.
<<my idea of undoing Sins Past is to say MJ had post hypnotic suggestions given to her while in labor, by the medical staff on Norman Osborne's payroll. The twins were created by good old Miles Warren as a fail safe to kill Peter.>>
Works for me. Now we just have to convince Marvel to print it.
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Roque Martinez
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 292
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| Posted: 24 September 2007 at 6:56pm | IP Logged | 4
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QUOTE:
| Works for me. Now we just have to convince Marvel to print it. |
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That would be quite hard, I'd think. That would mean revisiting *two* stories I doubt Marvel would want to mention ever again.
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Larry Morris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 622
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| Posted: 24 September 2007 at 7:20pm | IP Logged | 5
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I was being facetious. Believe me, I have no illusions that Marvel will be retconning that story. Gwen's dead and has been that way for over 30 years. Of all the damage that I think some of their recent stories have inflicted on characters, this story is among the easiest to just ignore because you don't have Gwen or the twins appearing in the books every month reminding you of the story.
Still doesn't mean that I'll ever stop wanting it to be retconned.
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Thomas Moudry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5060
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| Posted: 24 September 2007 at 8:49pm | IP Logged | 6
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Robbie Parry said: "Bit of a bad day at work for me (one of those days where everything
went wrong). Felt stressed on the way home and still do. Until now.Thomas, that quote of yours put a smile on my face, it made me laugh. Humour is good and I needed it tonight. Thank you."
Glad I was able to brighten your day in some small way, Robbie. Just went with the inspiration. Heheheheheheh...
I'm around teenagers all day long, God bless 'em: sarcasm is a necessary tool.
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Brad Danson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 1440
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| Posted: 24 September 2007 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | 7
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QUOTE:
| Never crossed my mind. I don't even see that version of the character
AS Gwen Stacy in any way--just an ego-driven writer's attempted
rewriting of history. The story made me dislike the writer, not the
characters. A good writer's work should make him appear invisible to
the audience, since the characters are the focus of attention. A bad writer will draw attention to himself. |
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Glenn and I are getting negative responses to the our comments as if we liked SINS PAST. All we are saying is that we *think* JMS was intending to make the readers dislike Gwen. We both made it clear that we think that attempt failed. We're not arguing different points, people.
QUOTE:
| As others said, I don't agree. If you want them to forget about her, don't use her at all. |
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So you are agreeing...because I said the story failed. Not using her at all would have been the perfect way to get her out of people's mind.
QUOTE:
| How much attention was Gwen getting before SINS PAST? A story every 3
years where Peter mused about his relationship with her? Spider-Man
Blue I'll give you. |
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This we differ on. If Peter is going to be single again, I don't think he should have a perfect image of a woman coming up every three years because it is going to make it seem as if he never has a chance to find new love. That is as bad as him being married, imo.
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Glenn Greenberg
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6746
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| Posted: 24 September 2007 at 9:56pm | IP Logged | 8
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<<<Glenn and I are getting negative responses to the our comments as if we liked SINS PAST.>>>
We are?
<<<All we are saying is that we *think* JMS was intending to make the readers dislike Gwen.>>>
We are?
<<<We both made it clear that we think that attempt failed.>>>
We did?
<<<We're not arguing different points, people.>>>
We're not?
Do me a favor, Brad--speak for yourself, okay???
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Larry Morris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 July 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 622
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| Posted: 24 September 2007 at 10:35pm | IP Logged | 9
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<<Glenn and I are getting negative responses to the our comments as if we liked SINS PAST. All we are saying is that we *think* JMS was intending to make the readers dislike Gwen. We both made it clear that we think that attempt failed. We're not arguing different points, people.>>
Reread your first post. You used the term forget, not dislike. I'm not talking about whether the attempt was a success or not. I disagree with your view of the intention.
<<So you are agreeing...because I said the story failed. Not using her at all would have been the perfect way to get her out of people's mind.>>
See above, we don't agree. But if we can both agree on your second line because it's so apparent, shouldn't JMS have been able to see this? Unless, maybe that wasn't the intent of the story.
I don't claim to know, but I don't think JMS was thinking, here's how I'll eventually get Gwen
out of readers' minds.
<<This we differ on. If Peter is going to be single again, I don't think he should have a perfect image of a woman coming up every three years because it is going to make it seem as if he never has a chance to find new love. That is as bad as him being married, imo.>>
You bet we differ on it. Thinking warm thoughts about his first love every several years precludes Peter from finding new love? Yet, he married MJ and they've been married 20 years(real time). Sorry, I don't think so.
With all the marital problems they've had over the years, how many have been attributable to Gwen?
How many times have Peter and MJ argued over an inability on his part to get past Gwen's death? I'm talking post marriage here. Again, 20 years of comics.
The Parker marriage has had it's problems, but the problems haven't been about Gwen. They've mostly been over Peter being Spider-Man and MJ's feelings that this came before her.
I think you are exaggerating the impact that Peter periodically waxing nostalgic over Gwen has had on his lovelife.
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Victor Rodgers
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Posts: 3508
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| Posted: 24 September 2007 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | 10
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That would be quite hard, I'd think. That would mean revisiting *two* stories I doubt Marvel would want to mention ever again.
********
I do not think it would need to be a five part crossover. Just slip it into some dialogue next time Norman turns up.
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Martin Redmond
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006
Posts: 3882
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| Posted: 25 September 2007 at 5:21am | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
| Just slip it into some dialogue next time Norman turns up. |
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Turns up dead prefferably. Man, that character used to be simple. Now he's this cluster full of contrived back story and should have stayed dead anyhow.
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Brian Mayer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2007
Posts: 216
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| Posted: 25 September 2007 at 6:20am | IP Logged | 12
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The Green Goblin definitly should have stayed dead. So should have Aunt May. Does Spider-Man have any other characters who have come back from the dead?
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Topic Closed)
