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Topic: Q for the Forum: How would YOU fix Spider-Man? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Michael Roberts
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 1  

Unfortunately, I now think MJ is so important that many readers won't accept
Peter dating anybody else.

---

Well, obviously she needs to have secret love children with Doc Ock to make
readers forget about her.
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 11:08am | IP Logged | 2  

I'm not quite sure how writing a four part story with the center being Gwen Stacy is an attempt to " make the readers forget about Gwen."  If you want them to do that, stop writing stories about her!  Simple as pie.  I haven't heard a clamoring from fans for stories about Gwen, but I have noticed quite a few writers going to that particular well way too many times...including JMS.
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John Mietus
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 11:23am | IP Logged | 3  

 Glenn Greenberg wrote:
Sure, it's possible that a girl can be platonic with
her boyfriend but sleep with some other guy on the side. John M.'s own
personal experience attests to this.


And not just that, but that a sweet girl who was just not yet ready to lose
her virginity to her patient, tolerant and loving boyfriend could be
seduced by a much older man who was a total sleazebag. That was when I
learned the hard lesson that nice guys don't get laid.


 QUOTE:
Anyway, Patrick, I do think John M. understands my point.


I do indeed, as I believe I mentioned upthread a few pages ago. Gwen's a
fictional character defined by the writers. Having a writer have her do
something so utterly out of character to serve the story he wanted to tell,
rather than write a story based on who the character was that served the
point he wanted to make, was what lost me completely on his Spider-Man
run specifically and the final straw on the Marvel camel's back for me in
general. And it especially was irritating to me because JMS's Babylon 5 is
one of my favorite shows because the characterization in that story
is so tight.

Ah, well.
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Mike Bunge
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 11:32am | IP Logged | 4  

"As you point out, the logistics of juggling multiple, interlocking creative teams on such a tight schedule are nightmarish. I'm not sure why the Marvel editors would set themselves up for such headaches. Such an intricate web (pun intended) seemingly is an invitation for blown deadlines and other troubles."

 

The thrice-monthly thing pretty clearly seems to be nothing more than a cash grab.  Since The Road to Civil War started in AMAZING, it's sold more than the other two Spider-monthlies combined.  The last two years have made it clear that the folks buying AMAZING simply don't want to buy other Spider-titles, so M****l is trying to "trick" them into doing it.  The way they're going about it, though, seems destined to fail.

Mike

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Glenn Greenberg
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 5  

<<<I'm not quite sure how writing a four part story with the center being
Gwen Stacy is an attempt to " make the readers forget about Gwen." If
you want them to do that, stop writing stories about her! Simple as pie. I
haven't heard a clamoring from fans for stories about Gwen, but I have
noticed quite a few writers going to that particular well way too many
times...including JMS.>>>


Couldn't agree with you more, Matt...

Though it could be argued that the goal of the story could have been to
make the readers DISLIKE Gwen so much, and be so turned off to her
once the truth was revealed, that they would forget about her once and
for all.

The thought crossed my mind when I read it!

Edited by Glenn Greenberg on 24 September 2007 at 11:49am
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Eric Kleefeld
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 6  

I'd fix Spider-Man through some sort of time-travel story that wipes the marriage from continuity.

I'd also use this same method to fix Superman.
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Glenn Greenberg
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 7  

<<<a sweet girl who was just not yet ready to lose
her virginity to her patient, tolerant and loving boyfriend could be
seduced by a much older man who was a total sleazebag.>>>


If you don't mind my asking, JM, what reason did she give for doing it?
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 8  

What's implausible is having GWEN STACY in that situation.

***

BINGO! That's what drives me nuts about some current writers. It's true that almost anything is possible in fiction, and there's really no kind of story that can't be told, but too many writers fail to realize that it is NOT appropriate to tell ANY story with ANY character. It's fine to have a "hero" who kills his enemies, but if that tendency is suddenly tacked on to Captain America, for example, the writer is just plain WRONG. There's no other way to put it.

++++++++++++

Gwen isn't the only character who suffered in that story.

Mary Jane is revealed as a lying, manipulative b**** who put two innocent children in danger because she never bothered to tell Peter that they existed.

Peter is revealed as a blind fool who was completely unaware of Gwen's duplicity, and probably would have been dumb enough to support her and her bastard offspring after she dumped them on him.

Norman Osborn is revealed as a dirty, creepy guy (as opposed to being merely a ruthless businessman and a bad father), and for some reason, he acts like the Green Goblin and knows that the kids' blood is "special" when Gwen threatens him, at a point in time BEFORE he snapped and his Green Goblin memories returned in ASM # 121.

 

To quote the very logical wisdom of a certain Vulcan...

"If I let go of a hammer on a planet that has a positive gravity, I need not see it fall to know that it has, in fact, fallen."

These fictional characters had well-established characteristics and personalities LONG before JMS and his ego came along. No one will ever convince me that any of the behavior in that story is in-character or well-written.

 



Edited by Greg Kirkman on 24 September 2007 at 1:10pm
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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | 9  

And it especially was irritating to me because JMS's Babylon 5 is
one of my favorite shows because the characterization in that story
is so tight.

+++++++++

I haven't read or watched any of JMS' other works, so I can't comment.

But the one thing I do firmly believe is that he doesn't know the first thing about Spider-Man, to say nothing about writing the character and his supporting cast properly. I don't think any writer who actually understands the dynamics of the character or his supporting cast could do the things JMS has done to the mythos.

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Greg Kirkman
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 10  

Though it could be argued that the goal of the story could have been to
make the readers DISLIKE Gwen so much, and be so turned off to her
once the truth was revealed, that they would forget about her once and
for all.

The thought crossed my mind when I read it!

++++++++

Never crossed my mind. I don't even see that version of the character AS Gwen Stacy in any way--just an ego-driven writer's attempted rewriting of history. The story made me dislike the writer, not the characters. A good writer's work should make him appear invisible to the audience, since the characters are the focus of attention. A bad writer will draw attention to himself.

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Matt Reed
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 1:21pm | IP Logged | 11  

I think JMS writes his own characters well.  I enjoyed RISING STARS and MIDNIGHT NATION.  Thought they were terrific books.  I didn't like BABYLON 5, but I know that show has its fans.  He even wrote some pretty strong stories for the 80s TWILIGHT ZONE.  But I don't think he writes mainstream company superheroes well at all.  Obviously, I hate his ASM.  I didn't like his overly wordy FF.  Both of those personal opinions have kept me away from the THOR revamp even though he's a favorite character of mine.  If I had a hand in things, I'd encourage his creator owned work and keep him far away from company characters.
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Steven McCauley
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 12  

The first thought that went through my head when I read SINS PAST was how to fix this travesty.

Mark me down as one that stopped buying all Spider-Man titles as a result.

I haven't read it in a while -- but is there anything in it that precludes Gwen being clone-Gwen or MJ being duped into believing the story (Mysterio/Mesmero/Green Goblin)?

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