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Mark Waldman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1274
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Posted: 23 September 2007 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | 1
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My fix for Spider-Man would be to go back to the basics - of course I could say the same thing for any character, but of course the big two would not do that. The basics for me would be simple stories, simple art, correct storytelling, classic villains, a reboot of much of the noise attached the past 20 years, and so on. I'd recommend whoever the creative team would be read the first 100 issues or so of Amazing Spider-Man and recapture the feel of Ditko and Romita, scrap the "modern" crap.
I'm boring, I guess, but simple silver age stories hold a lot more interest to me than rushed "stories" with tons of "dynamic" splash pages and dark, brooding imagery that amounts to bad drawing and a lot of nothing.
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Dan Burke Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 June 2007 Posts: 432
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Posted: 23 September 2007 at 6:58pm | IP Logged | 2
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i am really torn. i am 27 so peter with MJ is "my spiderman." i am personally against separating the two AGAIN.
I will still read spiderman though if they disolve the marriage in a way that is not off putting to me. i would like to see a return to the down on his luck peter parker. i don't like the tragedy after tragedy peter parker that has been around lately.
Either way, i am eager to see who makes peter this offer and why. what would strange or the devil or god have to gain by taking away peter's marriage to save his aunt. i hope they can do it in an interesting way. Usually a sophie's choice has to be directly related... not a random exchange... i hope this is well done.
See how naive I am? After all Marvel has done in the last 6 years, I still give them the benefit of the doubt. I don't know why I bother.
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Richard Stevens Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1956
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Posted: 23 September 2007 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | 3
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Honestly, all Spider-Man needs are stories that end and enemies who
actually commit crimes. Everything else falls into place if you have those
ingredients!
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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 5:15am | IP Logged | 4
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I also like knowing the EIC doesn't find Spider-Man depressing enough as it is.
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Patrick Drury Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 December 2005 Posts: 695
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 5
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Again -- and I'm not saying this to defend the storyline because your last
sentence is really the crux of the issue -- this really did happen to me
back in college with my girlfriend. So I could buy the scenario. -------------------
It didn't look like Glenn's point was that it was implausible - but rather that it shows Gwen in a rather bad light.
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Bruce Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4797
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 7:26am | IP Logged | 6
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About the "Sins Past" storyline, it simply doesn't work from a chronology standpoint. It just doesn't fit with the events of ASM #90-121.
Gwen was only in London for a short period of time (probably a few weeks tops), as Greg points out. She certainly wasn't gone long enough to get pregnant and carry twins to term. This is a classic case of shoehorning a story where it doesn't fit, rather than working in the confines of what you've been given. I'm not saying writers should be a slave to continuity, but this is a pretty big discrepancy.
I also happen to think it was an absolutely horrible idea to begin with and completely misrepresents the Gwen Stacy character. But if you are going to ruin a character, at least get the basic facts right!
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Glenn Greenberg Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6746
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 8:54am | IP Logged | 7
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<<<It didn't look like Glenn's point was that it was implausible - but
rather that it shows Gwen in a rather bad light.>>>
And does irreparable harm to her character and the readers' perception of
her character--something JMS doesn't seem to understand, or is willingly
ignoring, based on his reaction to the criticisms leveled at his story.
The situation itself isn't implausible, as John M.'s own personal
experience shows.
What's implausible is having GWEN STACY in that situation.
Sure, it's possible that a girl can be platonic with her boyfriend but sleep
with some other guy on the side. John M.'s own personal experience
attests to this. But applying that behavior to Gwen Stacy?
Just like it's possible that a couple could take in an orphaned baby boy
and turn out to secretly be child abusers and/or pedophiles. But applying
that behavior to Jonathan and Martha Kent? Or Ben and May Parker?
Anyway, Patrick, I do think John M. understands my point.
Edited by Glenn Greenberg on 24 September 2007 at 8:56am
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 9:18am | IP Logged | 8
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What's implausible is having GWEN STACY in that situation.
***
BINGO! That's what drives me nuts about some current writers. It's true that almost anything is possible in fiction, and there's really no kind of story that can't be told, but too many writers fail to realize that it is NOT appropriate to tell ANY story with ANY character. It's fine to have a "hero" who kills his enemies, but if that tendency is suddenly tacked on to Captain America, for example, the writer is just plain WRONG. There's no other way to put it.
Glenn, I wish you were still writing comics.
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Mike Bunge Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1335
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 10:41am | IP Logged | 9
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What do people think about the way M****l is apparently going to fix Spider-Man? Both how they are seemingly going back to the traditional Spider-Man (secret identity, web-shooters, maybe single again), which I can't see how they can do without some cosmic reboot, and going from multiple Spider-monthlies to just one book (AMAZING SPIDER-MAN) three times a month?
It'll be interesting to see how "new school" fans will react to having a bunch of stuff they've read undone and if "old school" fans have been too pissed off to come back. I also haven't seen anything at M****l in the last 5 years to make me think they can exert enough editorial control to handle multiple creative teams on a thrice-monthly. The best they can hope for is to transform AMAZING into an anthology title with a regular sequence of creators, which doesn't seem like a sales bonaza to me.
Mike
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Bruce Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4797
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 10:54am | IP Logged | 10
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As one of those disgruntled "old school" fans, I'd love to come back to Amazing. If the stories are good, that's one bandwagon I would be more than happy to climb aboard.
However, I'm skeptical of the thrice-monthly approach for a number of reasons:
- As you point out, the logistics of juggling multiple, interlocking creative teams on such a tight schedule are nightmarish. I'm not sure why the Marvel editors would set themselves up for such headaches. Such an intricate web (pun intended) seemingly is an invitation for blown deadlines and other troubles.
- Part of the problem in the last 20 years or so is that Spider-Man is simply overexposed. Too many titles, too many guest shots, etc. This tends to dilute the product and it drives away fans who don't have a small fortune to invest in comics every month. The thrice-monthly move doesn't address that issue - it just puts three titles under the Amazing Spider-Man banner. Less often is more - I'd rather see one or two really good Spider-Man titles a month.
- And as a purist, I believe that Amazing should be a monthly, ongoing series because that's how it was in the Lee/Ditko days. When I was a kid, I once counted backwards to figure out the month and the year of Amazing Spider-Man #1. They've already monkeyed with this tradition twice - the first time in 1990 when they did the twice-monthly issues in the summer months and the second time in 1998 when they rebooted with issue #1. Thankfully, they've restored the original numbering system.
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Brad Danson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2007 Posts: 1440
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 10:58am | IP Logged | 11
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I really think the attempt of "SINS PAST" was to make the readers forget about Gwen. Obviously it failed but she HAD been put on a pedestal and was too important to Peter's life. Peter's story needs to be that he is Spider-Man because of Uncle Ben's death. Gwen's story was getting almost as much attention as the origin.
I HATED "SINS PAST"...but I'm willing to do what I think it intended: Gwen doesn't need to be brought up anymore. I'm about 90% for a single Peter Parker. I love MJ but this is a case of "one step backward...".
Unfortunately, I now think MJ is so important that many readers won't accept Peter dating anybody else.
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Brendan Howard Byrne Robotics Member
FAQ Master Supreme
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4943
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Posted: 24 September 2007 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 12
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I would come back to Spider-Man if I liked the creative teams and the direction of the book, and the character was someone I recognized. I would prefer a single strong book two or more times a month to multiple books with multiple storylines.
I did come back to Spider-Man for the Mackie/JB/JRjr restarted books, but the contrast between the character I loved in Spider-Man: Chapter One and the married-to-a-supermodel guy in Amazing and Peter Parker eventually pushed me away from the core books. I didn't care for the crossover either.
I would love to come back to the Avengers and the Fantastic Four too. I was gone for years and years before Busiek & Perez refreshed the Avengers, and I picked up Waid & Wieringo's FF after being gone since Walt Simonson's run.
I hate the fact that Marvel isn't publishing anything I want to read.
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