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Robert Last Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 February 2006 Posts: 615
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 3:04am | IP Logged | 1
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Grant Morrison can be a little hit and miss with me, but his All Star Superman is wonderful, and his JLA was the best it had been for decades. He's been in the business for a long while himself. How likely is it he'd still be writing comics all this time later if he didn't love the format?
Comics are supposed to be FUN. They are supposed to be exciting, and a little edgy. They are not supposed to be horribly formulaic exercises churned out like a franchise burger. That has as negative effect on sales as any shiny gimmick.
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J.C. Alexander Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 183
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 5:04am | IP Logged | 2
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The same reason spandex was created JB--to help people see both the good and ugly side of humanity...
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Aki Himmanen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 635
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 6:01am | IP Logged | 3
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Wasn't this comment on the uniforms in the issue in which Cyclops also, excitingly, committed euthanasia? Now there was a moment in Morrison's run that was refreshingly new, and yet faithful to the spirit of the Claremont/Byrne run!
Edited by Aki Himmanen on 11 July 2007 at 6:02am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133776
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 6:19am | IP Logged | 4
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Grant Morrison: "The movie wisely went sci-fi instead of trying to appease the super-hero crowd and I think we must do the same. The X-MEN is not a story about super heroes but a story about the ongoing evolutionary struggle between good/new and old/bad. The X-MEN are every rebel teenager wanting to change the world and make it better. Humanity is every adult, clinging to the past, trying to destroy the future even as he places all his hopes there. The super-hero aspect should be seen as only a small element in the vast potential of this franchise." (emphasis added) Yet somehow Stan and Jack, Roy and Neal, oh, and those Claremont and Byrne guys, managed to make it all those things and a superhero book. D'you suppose we will ever reach a point (or, more correctly, return to a point) where fans, reading a statement like the one quoted above, will see that it is not a "profound deconstruction of the mythos", but an admission of failure by the speaker?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133776
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 6:26am | IP Logged | 5
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Comics are supposed to be FUN. They are supposed to be exciting, and a little edgy. They are not supposed to be horribly formulaic exercises churned out like a franchise burger. And this is either/or
why? Seems to me I have seen a few comments here and there, over the years, to the effect that Chris and I did one or two "edgy" stories in our time on X-MEN. I don't recall that we had to trash the concepts in order to do it.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12807
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 6:41am | IP Logged | 6
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Apparently, Grant Morrison has either not read the very first Lee/Kirby issue, which established that the X-Men are the protectors of humanity, or he has had read it and, well, hates that original idea.
And so it goes....
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Jason Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2473
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 6:42am | IP Logged | 7
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I don't think there was anything innately wrong in Morrison playing down the superhero aspects of the X-Men and playing up the science-fiction aspects. Lord knows there are enough superhero books out there already, dominating the market to the exclusion of every other genre. And in any event New X-Men still read like a superhero book of sorts -- super-powered good guys vs. super-powered bad guys.
Did Morrison mangle the characters' personalities in some cases? Yes, I'll admit that he did, and he shouldn't have, and he probably didn't even realize that he was doing so. That doesn't mean that everything he did was wrong. (And his Magneto was more like Stan Lee's Magneto than any other depiction since, oh, Uncanny X-Men #150 -- excepting X-Men: The Hidden Years, which in any case dealt with the pre-reformed Magneto.)
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Jason Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2473
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 8
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Morrison on Magneto:
"What people
often forget, of course, is that Magneto, unlike the lovely Sir Ian
McKellen, is a mad old terrorist twat. No matter how he justifies his
stupid, brutal behaviour, or how anyone else tries to justify it, in
the end he's just an old bastard with daft, old ideas based on violence
and coercion. I really wanted to make that clear at this time."
Sounds a bit like John Byrne on Magneto, no?
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Mark Matthewman Byrne Robotics Member
Boring Contrarian
Joined: 12 January 2007 Posts: 329
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 8:49am | IP Logged | 9
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1) Has there ever been a mainstream, "deconstructed" superhero story in which the hero in question kills his family and then himself? If not, Grant Morrison should get on that posthaste...
God no!!! DOnt give them any ideas. Please.
Look I like Grants writing on balance, his JlA run as was mentioned was the best run I can remember. But the last thing we need is more superHEROES turned into villians.
2) Why should a lifelong comic book geek like myself loathe professional wrestling so much? Is it the dreadful acting, overwhelmingly homoerotic vibe, or some other factor?
You know its funny, Ive been a wrestling fan my entire life. Started out when Hulkamania was still runnin wild, watched through puberty, still watch as an adult. I've heard the charge of "Homoeroticism" my entire life, and never understood where it comes from. But then I dont find the idea of two muscular men in tights erotic.
I mean honestly if you think pro wrestling is homoerotic, just come out of the closet already. I mean honestly how is Pro wrestling any mroe "homoerotic" than UFC or Boxing?
Back to the subject at hand, I never ever understood the whole >mutant menace" thing. Yes I understand its allegorical purpose, but in the context of the MU it makes no damn sense. In a world where Thor, Captain America, Spiderman, and other heroes are beloved, why would the average person have a problme with people born with powers and love those who got them by accident?
Now maybe if mutants had existed prior to superheroes, I could understand the public distrusting all of them, but loving some and hating others?
Please.
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 10:10am | IP Logged | 10
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I don't think there was anything innately wrong in Morrison playing down the superhero aspects of the X-Men and playing up the science-fiction aspects. Lord knows there are enough superhero books out there already, dominating the market to the exclusion of every other genre. And in any event New X-Men still read like a superhero book of sorts -- super-powered good guys vs. super-powered bad guys.
*******
SER: Playing down the "superhero aspects" of a superhero book is a mistake, plain and simple. It's like the new CEO of McDonald's saying that "lord knows there are enough fast-food restaurants out there already, dominating the market to the exclusion of every other" restaurant, so he then tries to turn McDonald's into Applebee's.
Sure, you might successfully make McDonald's into Applebee's but doing so destroys what once was McDonald's. You can't have it both ways.
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 10:12am | IP Logged | 11
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Back to the subject at hand, I never ever understood the whole >mutant menace" thing. Yes I understand its allegorical purpose, but in the context of the MU it makes no damn sense. In a world where Thor, Captain America, Spiderman, and other heroes are beloved, why would the average person have a problme with people born with powers and love those who got them by accident?
*************
SER: That is the basic conceit. Why is it so difficult to accept? Also, Spider-Man is hardly "beloved."
Further, mutants can "replace" humanity (homo-superior, after all). It's the difference between occassional flukes (non-mutants with superpowers) and the slow but steady march of a new race.
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Eric Lund Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2074
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Posted: 11 July 2007 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 12
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the Mutant "scare" was always stupid...
The Thing and the Human Torch are loved by the masses but the Angel is so horrifying that people run in panic?
With our culture today Mutants could sell their sperm and eggs for MILLIONS and people would line up around the block to get it... With plastic surgery and celebrity worship people BORN with superpowers would be treated like GODS...
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