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Larry Morris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 622
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Posted: 18 July 2007 at 12:05am | IP Logged | 1
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<<To tell the truth, had they shown it was Dark Phoenix doing the deed, I wouldn't have bothered. Since it wasn't though..>>
No danger of that under Morrison. For him, Jean was Phoenix. I remember, back then, reading Morrison saying that he would explain everything you needed to know about Phoenix in a couple lines. My reaction was, Grant, I don't think so. It's too continuity laiden.
He just established it as incredibly high end TK. Jean is a Phoenix as were many othere in his last issue. The White Hot Room was filled with Phoenixes. I think Jean was a special, or maybe the main Phoenix, because she was the Phoenix of the White Crown.
By the end, he wasn't calling it the Phoenix force. It was called the Phoenix consciousness. In any case, I think it's pretty clear that, as far as Morrison was concerned, Jean was the character in UXM 101-137.
Again, there was no explanation like FF 286 explains the original story. Explains and retcons. He sort of retcons the retcon without a lengthy explanation.
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Thanos Kollias Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2004 Location: Greece Posts: 5009
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Posted: 18 July 2007 at 12:28am | IP Logged | 2
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I, sort of, get what you say, or what Morrison may have intended. I have chosen my words pretty accuretely though. I wrote "Dark" Phoenix. No mention of Dark Phoenix in Morrison's work. And the Dark Phoenix Saga is THE X-Men stroyline for a reason.
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David Ferguson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007 Location: Ireland Posts: 6782
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Posted: 18 July 2007 at 3:53am | IP Logged | 3
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Boy, Larry, I sure do hope you're for real!!
********
See who the teacher's pet is!! lol
Great post Larry. Its good to see some commentary on recent X-men stories (since a lot of people on the forum don't read them - often for good reason).
I agree totally on the Magneto issue. It was bad enough when I thought he killed him in one in his first issues but then he turned him into a complete loser.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133740
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Posted: 18 July 2007 at 6:15am | IP Logged | 4
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See who the teacher's pet is!! lol
•••
Oh, that was necessary!
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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 18 July 2007 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 5
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Emma & Scott were asking for it by being little backstabing chickenshits instead of going about their affair the old fashioned way. It only made Jean more awesome. She should've slapped that ho and kicked Scott to the curb.
Of course, comic books still being written and read mostly by guys with antiquated views on women, instead Jean Grey HAD to die so Scott and Emma could have sex together. And now Jean comes back from the dead every so often as the ex-wife psychobitch out to steal Scott and Emma's children.
And I'm not kidding about people saying she had to die. I actually read that alot before she did. Like she should die so Scott can be with Emma...
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133740
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Posted: 18 July 2007 at 6:36am | IP Logged | 6
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Misogyny has been a long-standing curse in fandom, but it used to lurk in the darker corners. With the shrinking of the marketplace, it has taken up a much more prominent position.
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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 18 July 2007 at 6:50am | IP Logged | 7
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QUOTE:
To tell the truth, had they shown it was Dark Phoenix doing the deed, I wouldn't have bothered. Since it wasn't though |
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Why would that bother anyone? She refused to be played for a fool, which was what was happening to her, so she took control of the situation. And what did Scott do? He ran away like a little pussy. You have to be a bully sometimes, there's nothing villainy about it.
Come on, the story motive couldn't have been more transparent.You don't have the guts to break with your wife? That's okay, we'll just kill her for you. Scott and Emma couldn't have been a lamer couple. It's too funny.
Edited by Martin Redmond on 18 July 2007 at 6:51am
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Larry Morris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 622
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Posted: 18 July 2007 at 12:07pm | IP Logged | 8
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There is the bottom line. You don't mind Jean doing what she did to Emma because she and Scott "had it coming". I want Jean to be better than that. I would never want Jean Grey to stoop to Emma Frost's level. Jean does not have to stoop to her level to avoid being a doormat.
Emma Frost violates peoples minds routinely. What the hell does that have to do with Jean? I don't use Emma Frost's actions to determine my behaviorial expectations for Scott and Jean. I use their histories to determine that.
Should Jean start killing all those villians who are trying to kill her because they have it coming? I expect better of Jean, a whole lot better than Emma Frost.
I didn't say she shouldn't be angry. If she had walked across the room and socked Emma, I would have said nothing. Not put her in intensive care, sock her once or twice.
I'm no Emma Frost fan, but chickenshit applies to Scott. Emma is more than willing to sleep with him anyway she can. And she doesn't stop trying until she does. There is nothing sheepish about Emma Frost. She is a bitch and is upfront about who and what she is.
Not my cup of tea, that's for sure. Far as I'm concerned, there is something seriously wrong when Emma Frost has more of a place in the X Universe than Jean Grey.
Where, exactly, did you read that Jean had to die so Scott and Emma could be together? Not message board posts. Did Quesada say it? Morrison? Anyone at Marvel? If they have, I missed it.
I think Morrison wanted Jean to be Phoenix separate from Scott being with Emma. I didn't read this, but he may have thought her return in 1986 was a mistake. I saw him say the retcon was a mistake.
He doesn't intend for her to stay dead. It says on her gravestone that she will return. Morrison wanted her to be a goddess, have a bigger purpose than the X Men.
Scott and Emma can still be together with Jean alive(just typing that makes me want to puke) if he wanted that. Instead of wasting 40 issues on that interminable subplot, separate Scott and Jean early on and slowly work towards Scott/Emma.
I'm not saying that Scott/Emma wasn't facilitated by Jean's death. I'm just not convinced that it was Morrison's mindset. I want Scott/Emma so screw Jean. Trust me, I despised his run. I dropped the books over his run. He ruined Scott's character for me, but until I flat out see him, or someone else involved, say it, I'm not going to assume his motives.
Of course, like and dislike is relative. Morrison said over and over that Cyclops was his favorite X Man. Sorry, I don't take much solace from that.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133740
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Posted: 18 July 2007 at 12:14pm | IP Logged | 9
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I wish I could get the phone number of the devil some of these guys seem to have sold their souls to. "Just sign here, and the fans will believe whatever you say no matter what you do…"
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Larry Morris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 622
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Posted: 18 July 2007 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | 10
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I guess you'd have to read it, JB. Right now, you're judging it by what others say. Do I think you'd like it? Not a chance in hell, but I don't "know" that.
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Jason Schulman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2473
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Posted: 18 July 2007 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 11
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I didn't really read X-Men comics in the 1990s, but I think it was established that Emma had reformed (wasn't she mentor the Generation X kids?) and that Jean and the Phoenix Force had been reunited, for want of a better word. So I think Morrison dodges the bullet where those two are concerned.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133740
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Posted: 18 July 2007 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 12
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Funny thing I have discovered in my decade on the internet --- there are many books/titles I don't have to read in order to know whether I would like them. And not because of what people say about what they don't like, but because of what people say about what they do!There's been one writer in particular -- every time I read the praise being heaped upon his work, I want to run screaming into the night.
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