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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 13 July 2007 at 3:36pm | IP Logged | 1
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QUOTE:
| Surely he'd respect the professors wishes? Why would he assume his judgement was superior at that point, especially given his own comparison to what happened to Jean? |
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Not a question of assuming superior judgement, but of wanting to keep him alive. And he obviously didn't agree with Jean's decision to sacrifice herself.
Also, whether you agree with Scott's actions or not is kind of beside the point, which is that he's averse to killing horrible aliens, let alone innocent victims to put them out of their misery. But while he's willing to do the former due to necessity, he's completely unwilling to do the latter.
Anyway, he obviously made the right decision as Xavier survived the ordeal.
Edited by Paulo Pereira on 13 July 2007 at 4:18pm
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Stan Lomisceau
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 October 2006
Posts: 530
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| Posted: 13 July 2007 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | 2
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mr. schuman i do not know why are reading the comics. maybe you can find a new hobby? thanks
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Jason Powell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 429
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| Posted: 13 July 2007 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 3
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Thanos' post is from issue 167.
Robert, the point is that Cyclops at first thought Xavier had been totally
subsumed by the Brood Queen. In effect, he thought Professor X's mind
was dead, his body totally taken over by an alien (a queen who would in
turn go on to kill other people by infecting them).
When it became clear that Professor X's mind still existed, it became a
different story.
Thanos, awesome page, thanks for posting it. I love the rhythm of
Claremont's dialogue, as exemplified in that last panel.
"Any objections?"
"Lots."
"None."
"So that's Cyclops."
"Wow!"
Claremont may have been wordy, but he also was great at punctuating
the end of a scene with some very terse balloons, and Tom Orzechowski's
ability to lead the eye just perfectly from one baloon to the next made it
all the better.
F*CK, I love comics! Sorry, what were we talking about?
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Robert Last
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 February 2006
Posts: 615
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| Posted: 13 July 2007 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 4
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Thanks Jason, I've never been much of an X-Men fan beyond the original issues, so I didn't know the full context of the story. It's interesting that Scott is still prepared to kill when he has to, perhaps explaining a little the abrasive yet obviously close relationship between himself and Wolverine.
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 13 July 2007 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 5
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Mr. Lomisceau,
I don't know why you care what I do or don't do. How about you ignore my posts if they bother you so much? Thanks.
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Roque Martinez
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 292
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| Posted: 13 July 2007 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | 6
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QUOTE:
| Is there context for the other items in Thanos' list? I'm asking. |
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In order:
QUOTE:
| 1. introduces a new mutation from day one without explanation. |
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Introduced the concept of Secondary Mutation, that is, than in circumstances of extreme stress mutants can develop further; as it was the case with Beast and his Disney look. It's an interesting concept that seemed to help explain why there has been changes in a few mutantes powers and looks before.
QUOTE:
| 2. banishes costumes and outright mocks them. |
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That one doesn't need context. Unlike other instances that are bandied about with willful ignorance, in this case Morrison did do exactly that.
QUOTE:
| 4. writes Cyclops and Jean as having marital problems that didn't
exist before just because it fitted his plans (and ego), forsakening
decades long stories involving those two. |
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That's true, but again one of the reason Cyclops asked Emma advice was to handle his already mentioned possession. And of course the part about the storyline being because of Morrison's ego is just mindreading.
QUOTE:
| 5. kills Magneto and Jean in the same issue. |
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He did, and pretty badly. I hated that story because it turned Magneto into a joke.
QUOTE:
| 6. introduces sex related and drug related storylines in the X-Men, involving teenagers. |
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That's true. And preposterous. We all know teenagers don't have sex or do drugs.
QUOTE:
| 7. has Cyclops drinking and getting drank. |
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True. But then again, Cyclops had the aforementioned marital troubles and usually when guys have that kind of problems they get wasted. Also, it was a great character interaction between Logan and Scott.
QUOTE:
| 8. has Cyclops cheat on his wife with a mortal enemy whom he
apparently trusts enough to take her advice on his marital problems. |
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He never actually had any physical encounter with Emma, but yes.
Jean used the Phoenix Force to show Emma his past and forced to confront her. In essence she was holding a telepathic mirror to her, if that constitutes torture then I guess, yeah, she did.
QUOTE:
| 10. Xavier has a twin sister whom he murders while in the womb (!!!!!!). |
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Basically true.
QUOTE:
| 12. has the X-Men reveal their link to the School for Gifted Youngsters. |
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Also true. Xavier thought he could do more in favor of mutants by going public.
QUOTE:
| 13. has Cyclops kiss Emma over Jean's grave! |
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This was part of a time travel storyline. As it originally happened, Scott left Emma and the Institute for good, without his guidance and strenght, this brings about a hellish and horrible future. A resurrected Phoenix in the future basically 'amputates' that alternate timeline by going back to the moment when Scott made his choice, and gave him a little 'nudge' to help him see past her death, and resume living alongside Emma and as head of the Institute.
So, yes, he did kiss Emma over Jean's grave. With Jean's full permission and approval.
QUOTE:
| 14. has Wolverine mercy killing Jean (mercy killing seems to be a theme)! |
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Magneto had Jean and Wolverine trapped in the remains of Asteroid M and heading to the Sun, so Wolverine popped a claw through Jean's chest. Of course she later went all Phoenix because of this and saved Logan's life.
So yeah, Logan mercy killed Jean, at least for a couple of pages. When he mercy killed Mariko it was more permanent. Where was the outrage for that?
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 13 July 2007 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 7
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QUOTE:
| When he mercy killed Mariko it was more permanent. Where was the outrage for that? |
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Actually, that pissed me off. I saw no reason for it whatsoever.
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Paulo Pereira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006
Posts: 15539
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| Posted: 13 July 2007 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | 8
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QUOTE:
| t's an interesting concept that seemed to help explain why there has been changes in a few mutantes powers and looks before. |
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If I'm not much mistaken, the Beast's first mutation came from an outside source (i.e. chemicals).
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Roque Martinez
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 292
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| Posted: 13 July 2007 at 7:12pm | IP Logged | 9
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Also I forgot that while Apocalypse's possession was Scott's reason for having marital troubles, Jean's was that she was hosting (again, or for the first time, depending on who you ask) the Phoenix Force.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 13 July 2007 at 7:26pm | IP Logged | 10
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"So yeah, Logan mercy killed Jean, at least for a couple of pages. When
he mercy killed Mariko it was more permanent. Where was the outrage for
that?"
Wolverine's a killer. Scott is not.
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Robert Last
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 February 2006
Posts: 615
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| Posted: 14 July 2007 at 1:52am | IP Logged | 11
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I dunno Joe, from the example Thanos posted, it's pretty clear he's prepared to kill if he absolutely has too. Not with the apparent ease of Wolverine, but there nonetheless.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14865
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| Posted: 14 July 2007 at 2:22am | IP Logged | 12
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Introduced the concept of Secondary Mutation, that is, than in
circumstances of extreme stress mutants can develop further; as it was
the case with Beast and his Disney look. It's an interesting concept that
seemed to help explain why there has been changes in a few mutantes
powers and looks before.
---
Not a big fan of the Secondary Mutation. It was mostly used as a deus ex
machina: Emma suddenly turning into diamond in order to survive the
destruction of Genosha; Angel suddenly being able to heal people with
his blood to resurrect Paige Guthrie; Beast suddenly looking like the
character from the Cocteau movie because it made a good visual pun. I'm
really not sure what it helped explain. Most of the other alterations in
mutant powers prior to the introduction of the concept were due to either
maturation or external influences, so it really did not improve things.
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Topic Closed)
