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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | 1
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The metal boards I go to are pretty rough, at least as bad as comic forums can be.
Music forums are much much worse. They're also the easiest and most fun to troll on.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133574
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | 2
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A fan is reading it and the creator is making it. I don't know that you can really have it both ways. It's one or the other. ••• Now we cue someone asking "So what you're saying is that in order to write comics you can't like them anymore?" You are right, Trevor. I love superheroes -- and that love is what keeps me from wanting to make them MINE. I want to recapture the magic that drew me to the genre, so others can experience it as I did. That doesn't happen when the stories begin with the fan mentality. It's too inbred, too insular.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133574
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 6:30pm | IP Logged | 3
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Harlan Ellison is one of the biggest fans of comics in
the world. He has written great comics. How does
one trump the other?
•••
Wow! Sooner than I expected.
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Chad Carter Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005 Posts: 9584
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 6:31pm | IP Logged | 4
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Hawkeye was the leader of the Avengers at one time, and integral to the 1960s teams (as either himself or Goliath) like no other member aside from Captain America and Hank Pym. If you, Trevor, were to write THE AVENGERS, is slanting your stories in more of a Hawkeye manner really a disservice to the Avengers?
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Trevor Krysak Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4163
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 6:42pm | IP Logged | 5
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"Hawkeye was the leader of the Avengers at one time, and integral to the 1960s teams (as either himself or Goliath) like no other member aside from Captain America and Hank Pym. If you, Trevor, were to write THE AVENGERS, is slanting your stories in more of a Hawkeye manner really a disservice to the Avengers?"
Like I said. I would write towards the strengths and weaknesses of the character. If I have Hawkeye save the day in an issue of the Avengers and the plot makes sense then I am writing a good story. If I do it in every issue I am writing bad stories that serve only my interest. If in the stories I write Hawkeye suddenly becomes a genius beyond Reed Richards and Tony Stark because I think Hawkeye is the smartest character ever I am completely going overboard.
It's working within the framework established for the character. Solid characterization is one those things you either capture or you don't. And if you don't chances are some fan will take you to task for it. Possibly on the internet ..
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Paulo Pereira Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 April 2006 Posts: 15539
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 6
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I remember reading a book where the author talked about the effect of the internet, but as it related to the entire world. He speculated that the internet would create a homogenized global society, which would be a bad thing.
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Chad Carter Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005 Posts: 9584
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 7
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The idea seems to be that a professional removes themselves from the stories in question in order to produce entertainment on a professional level. If you're reading Ludlum, are you writing espionage like Ludlum or are you writing John Byrne's Nick Carter?
When does the fan stop and the pro start?
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Trevor Krysak Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4163
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 6:51pm | IP Logged | 8
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"Isn't this like saying if you write espionage novels you can't read Matt Helm or Robert Ludlum?"
Yes and no. Minor revelation. I am in the midst of getting my own comic going. I am the writer and have created the bulk of the characters for the series. It's a superhero comic so I have tried to do my best to make things as original as possible. I've had to abandon two characters already because I learned they had been done by another company in a slightly different form. It's a real double edged sword. I have to have read a decent amount of comics to make a successful comic but at the same time if I read too much my inspiration may not be coming from me.
Knowing what I want to create and seeing how it is different from what is on the market these days means I have less of an interest in what is being published currently. I'm focused on my stories. And my goal is to tell tales I am proud to have people read. So that when the comic is on the shelves *fingers crossed* I can say I did the best job I could.
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Chad Carter Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005 Posts: 9584
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 6:57pm | IP Logged | 9
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I think even the worst creators don't have the same resolution over and over. If Hawkeye is integral to saving the day every time, he's acting as an Avenger. As a team member, he performs a singular function that operates within the group dynamic for the resolution to take place. In Trevor's AVENGERS, Hawkeye isn't "out of his element" and on the sidelines, or unconscious somewhere, or however writers decide a character isn't necessary to Plot A. Having an affinity for Hawkeye, as a pro, wouldn't mean Cap and Thor and Iron Man get short shrift.
I can argue this mentality might have kept a minor Canadian character devoid of flashy powers from stepping to the fore in a poor-selling team book. Not to say that was best for comics, but JB, Claremont, Frank Miller, and Paul Smith certainly can't complain, considering their stars began rapid ascension soonafter that initial "hot" period of Wolverine's popularity explosion.
And this is NOT me arguing fans turned pros are legit. But loving a character for its potential, for all the stories that COULD happen, and being a fan of a character and wishing you could MAKE them happen, are ocean depths apart in terms of intent. Aren't they?
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Chad Carter Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005 Posts: 9584
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 7:07pm | IP Logged | 10
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Trevor, I'm in the same spot. I had an artist cat want to produce a real comic book (real enough anyway) from some ideas for original characters I had. "Original" in superhero comics is a hard concept. Lucky for me, this guy is OCD enough that, visually, the characters' design doesn't remind either one of us of anyone else. And YET, we did want the archetypes, we did want to REMIND readers of other characters, just enough to intrigue them.
I adore some of the characters I created; others I think are boners, but this dude likes them. So thinking like a pro, I am taking those characters I'm not crazy in love with and I'm making them work. I think I have the skill to pull that off. It's a harder row to plow.
The ones I adore, I step back from them and look at them from a standpoint of What IS the best story I can tell here? What if this happens, how will the character react? For me, "professionally", the difference between the character I love and the character I don't is minimal, and this is because I respect them both.
Personally, though, Alpha Centauri difference in affection.
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Trevor Krysak Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4163
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 7:13pm | IP Logged | 11
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"And this is NOT me arguing fans turned pros are legit. But loving a character for its potential, for all the stories that COULD happen, and being a fan of a character and wishing you could MAKE them happen, are ocean depths apart in terms of intent. Aren't they?"
Finding potential in a character is completely different from overindulging an interest in a character. And that's what I've been talking about. Write the story to suit the character and not the reverse. If you have made or developed that character finding hidden potential is fine. Doing it with a well known character is a far riskier proposition.
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Chad Carter Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005 Posts: 9584
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Posted: 05 July 2007 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 12
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Let's say JB's AVENGERS WEST COAST "overindulges" in Scarlet Witch-centric storylines.
Is this good or bad story-telling? Is the Scarlet Witch a favorite character of JB's, or the most interesting character in this particular comic book?
It's pretty difficult to tell, considering the face time Scarlet Witch receives in that run.
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