Al wrote:
"I don't really feel that you and I have been on opposite sides of the discussion, Joakim -- more that we've started from a different point. Mine was interpreting that Mark meant 'professional' by 'real' (and if so, then yes, comic book writers are 'real' writers). You (and others) have made an excellent case for 'real' not necessarily meaning professional. I think we're both right!"
Indeed. I think what's even more interesting is that we both, given our different intepretations of "real" ("professional" and "artistic"), argue that comics writers should be considered no less "real" in any way.
Btw, the one thing that makes me think that Mark wasn't thinking along the line of "real" = "professional" is the fact that it's hard to deny that comics writers are professionals, since they do get the paychecks to prove it (the fan mentality and lack of professionality that abounds not withstanding).
Btw, Al... out of curiousity, where would you argue that the line between professional and "paying hobby" can/should be drawn? How much of one's livelihood has to depend upon one's craft for it to be one's profession (even as a part time profession)?
Al also wrote:
"Oh, and he has people read them to him, and describe the art. He picks up on stuff that no one else even catches -- perhaps unsurprisingly, his favourites are books that are well written. And it's amazing how quickly you realize that the art is not serving the writing when you're reading a book to someone this way."
Interesting... even though I'd add the caveat that in a strict media sense, that would mean that he's actually listening to oral narration that is a mix of written text and picture description, which throws a bit of a monkey wrench into the machinery.
You said he picks up on things no one else catches, which I guess is natural in many ways, but which also must show how the people involved in reading to him (particularly "reading" the pictures) must influence his understanding of the narrative and sometimes even open up to new interpretations not readily available in the comic itself.
In sense, it could be same effect as a comics artists adding elements in the pictures that the writer never had in the script, and thereby re-writing the narrative as a whole (if so only by a three panel background sub-plot).
Valerie Finnigan wrote:
"I think the allure of comics is different for each person. I would buy the best written comic even if it had bad art, because it's the stories and the characters that appeal the most to me, personally."
I would agree with Valerie here, even though I'd add a small caveat which moves towards Andrew's notion above. The fact is that comics is a visual medium, and while I too prefer a well told tale over pretty pictures, there's still the element that the pictures whether good or bad, must at the very least convey the narrative action. Now, it may be that a very good comics writer (without the physical drawing skills) can provide a good enough full script for a mediocre artist to get the visual storytelling working, but as far as I've understood it, the artist is quite often if not even in most cases a co-writer in shaping and structuring the storytelling (it's most definitely true when it comes to the Marvel method). It may be that the art doesn't require to be very pretty or good looking, but it does need to function or we'll have something even worse than just a string of pretty pictures, i.e. a string of ugly pictures.
And one last thing concerning "good" / "bad" art... what comics need more than anything else, IMHO, is fitting art. There are comics artists whose work I love, but that doesn't mean I want to see them do any kind of comics.
For instance, I tremendously adore Bill Watterson's work on Calvin & Hobbes, but – given that I haven't seen him draw in any other style – I'm not sure I would like to see him draw something like Spider-Man.
Or to use an existing example... I love Chris Bachalo's work on Vertigo titles like Shade and Death, but I am less convinced by what I've seen of what he's done for Marvel. His style just doesn't really work well to the mood of mainstream superheroics... at least not for me.