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Malcolm Savoy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 November 2006
Posts: 92
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| Posted: 07 February 2007 at 9:01am | IP Logged | 1
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And the bad guy calls himself "Big Loser". I STILL don't get that one!
I chalk it up to poetic license. Who names their daughter Elektra, as Frank Miller so famously did in Daredevil? You do these things to draw upon the power of the original stories, even if they don't make 100% sense.
And looking upon the original poem. Ozymandias was not a "Big Loser". He was a great and powerful man in his life, whose works eventually faded from history. Shelley was supposed to have based it on Ramses II (and the basis of the character in WATCHMEN using the name), who is still vividly remembered, so even that's artistic license.
Edited by Malcolm Savoy on 07 February 2007 at 9:07am
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Wade Duvall
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 November 2006
Posts: 767
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| Posted: 07 February 2007 at 9:05am | IP Logged | 2
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Don't know if this was mentioned yet or not. How about the current clone saga in Ultimate Spider-man? I just read USM #104 last night. I am sooo confused. It is like the story that never ends. How they created Spider-woman is just twisted. Don't know what MJs alter-ego is. With all those clones around, what will stop SHIELD, the FBI or some villian from cloning another army of Spider-clones in the future? Didn't Bendis learn from the clone saga in the regular Marvel Universe? Guess with his ego, he thought he could make it work in the Ultimate Universe.
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Brian Crispkey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 October 2006
Posts: 80
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| Posted: 07 February 2007 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 3
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No doubt you'd find it equally hilarious if John, or anyone else, called you a
'fucking moron' Joe. In fact, I'd go as far to say that if I'd called John a
'fucking moron' just because he liked a point that I didn't, lots of people
would be piping up in outrage, and you would more than likely be one of the
first.
There are some great people that post in here Joe. You're not one of them.
Hilarious.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 07 February 2007 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 4
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Well, no one has ever accused Bendis of being an idea-guy.
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Deepak Ramani
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 85
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| Posted: 07 February 2007 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 5
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James Revilla wrote:
| THE BAD GUY WINS. THE BAD GUY KILLS NEARLY EVERYONE IN NEW YORK. That is a good superhero story ? |
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In my opinion whether a superhero story is good or bad has relatively little to do with whether or not the bad guy wins. The bad guy won in "Emperor Doom" too, but I don't think that's a bad superhero story.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 07 February 2007 at 9:43am | IP Logged | 6
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No doubt you'd find it equally hilarious if John, or anyone else, called you a 'fucking moron' Joe. In fact, I'd go as far to say that if I'd called John a 'fucking moron' just because he liked a point that I didn't, lots of people would be piping up in outrage, and you would more than likely be one of the first. *** But, gee golly whiz! I used an LOL and a :-), the official, approved International Internet Symbols for "just joshin' witcha". Why on earth would you take offense?
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David Whiteley
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 2748
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| Posted: 07 February 2007 at 9:44am | IP Logged | 7
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"I don't mind being the smartest man in the world. I just wish it wasn't this
one."
That was me citing Ozymandias' quote from promo material for Watchmen.
It was not refering to anyone in this thread.
Edited by David Whiteley on 07 February 2007 at 9:44am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 07 February 2007 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 8
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In my opinion whether a superhero story is good or bad has relatively little to do with whether or not the bad guy wins. The bad guy won in "Emperor Doom" too, but I don't think that's a bad superhero story.*** As I recall, "Emperor Doom" had superheroes in it. WATCHMEN didn't. That's sort of the point of this entire debate.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 07 February 2007 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 9
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I wonder why the "smartest man in the world" called himself "Big Loser"?
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Oliver Staley
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Joined: 02 January 2007
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| Posted: 07 February 2007 at 9:48am | IP Logged | 10
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That was me citing Ozymandias' quote from promo material for Watchmen.
It was not refering to anyone in this thread.
Oh, I knew that. Just seemed so apt.
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Victor Manuel Fernandez Patiño
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Mexico
Posts: 1602
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| Posted: 07 February 2007 at 9:54am | IP Logged | 11
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I hate Watchmen...
I hated when I read it... and every time I remember that thing exists.
Sorry for Gibbons because it's a beautiful work of art. in those days I
thought that Moore was a sick man, then I just realized that some
writers and artist are so flawed they can't believe there can be good
in others, not even in fictional characters, and need to show that to a
lot of flawed fans that can find a excuse to their own lives. Who needs
superheroes to be taken "seriously" by civil people?
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Malcolm Savoy
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 November 2006
Posts: 92
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| Posted: 07 February 2007 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 12
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I wonder why the "smartest man in the world" called himself "Big Loser"?
After reading the history of the poem, I could see why such an arrogant, pretentious, vain man would adopt the moniker of the fictionalized version of one of his idols.The choice of the nickname is pretentious, bypassing the meaning of the poem to identify himself with the historical inspiration of it. Ramses II has not been forgotten and many of his works still stand, and Ozymandias is widely believed to have been inspired by R2, therefore the "Big Loser" aspect that you attribute to it doesn't really apply. It would be like a man idolizing Randolph Hearst giving himself a nickname derived from Citizen Kane, even though the movie was, in large part, an indictment of the man it was inspired by. Or the legion of people who proudly use images and sounds from 2001 for their computers, despite HAL having gone nuts and killed everyone.
Not that I think Ozy being a "Big Loser" was anywhere near the point of the poem. The evidence would suggest that he was a rather HUGE success in life and died believing that his legacy would live on. For that, he was wrong, but that hardly makes him a loser. Arrogant, yes. A loser, no.
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Topic Closed)
