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Oliver Staley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 January 2007 Posts: 447
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Posted: 06 February 2007 at 4:22pm | IP Logged | 1
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Moving on from trunks (or panties), does anyone know where the cape came from? Was Superman the first hero to wear a cape? Has anyone seen something from Siegel or Schuster explaining why he wears a cape? Now it seems incredibly natural for Supes to wear a cape but there must have been some reason for it.
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Jacob Reyn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 578
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Posted: 06 February 2007 at 4:30pm | IP Logged | 2
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I think you guys forgot the word brief, or something.
Knights use to wear capes in pre early twentieth century American art. Maybe that's where it came from.
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Oliver Staley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 January 2007 Posts: 447
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Posted: 06 February 2007 at 4:38pm | IP Logged | 3
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Who was the first costumed hero? The Phantom? Did the Green Hornet of the Shadow wear costumes ( I thought just masks)? Pretty sure they didn't have capes, in any event.
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Chad Carter Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 June 2005 Posts: 9584
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Posted: 06 February 2007 at 4:59pm | IP Logged | 4
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The Shadow uses a cloak, which is pretty much a cape.
However, is it part of a trench type coat, or is it literally tied at the neck or something? Didn't Sherlock Holmes wear a similar type of "over"? I don't know how to describe it.
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 06 February 2007 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | 5
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When Batman's trunks were elminated for a time in the 90s, it simply did not look right. No doubt the same would be true of Superman.
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Rance Johnson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 269
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Posted: 06 February 2007 at 6:49pm | IP Logged | 6
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Does it really not "look right" or is it simply because we are used to them? And Chad, I don't hate Superman or comics at all. As I stated earlier in this thread, he is my favorite character. I just have never liked the red trunks...
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 06 February 2007 at 6:59pm | IP Logged | 7
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In both cases, the trunks break up the color schemes and add some visual interest.
...and we're used to them.
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Jim Bracjey Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 August 2005 Posts: 224
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Posted: 06 February 2007 at 7:28pm | IP Logged | 8
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Here is what I think Superman's problem is.....the DC Universe. And to a lesser extent, the Marvel Universe.
Superman was the first and because of that, he was special enough. It was unusual for a guy to be able to pick up a car by himself and smash it into the wall. It was amazing to see somebody leaping tall buildings in a single bound. Nowadays? Not so amazing. Since then there have been thousands of attempts from people to make their own Superman to the point where the comics medium is totally dominated by superhero comics. And as continuity and "universe building" came into play, I think it just whittled away Superman's specialness.
In my opinion (and only my opinion), I think Superman would be better served if they pretended that he was IT in his titles. I understand having a JLA title, but in Action Comics and Superman and whatever else, I'd prefer there be ONE superhero and that's Superman. So when Lois, Jimmy, Perry, or Metropolis citizen one sees Superman lifting a semi truck, it doesn't seem like SOP.
For example, I didn't love Superman Returns. But watching it, I did get goosebumps at certain parts where Superman was doing amazing things. When he was rescuing people by doing things regular people would never be able to do. It's a feeling I think is missing from the comics because when every issue has him meeting the rest of the JLA for coffee, it diminishes things. I'd love to see a Superman comic where the main players are the Daily Planet cast and Superman and not one mention of anything to take away from the thought that in this fictional world there is nobody MORE or equally amazing than Superman. Superman will never be the one and only after years of crafting the superhero formula, but if they pretend he is I think they can get some of that magic back.
In closing, I find it kind of silly to read comics now where Green Lantern and Flash and everyone else are sitting around talking about how great Superman is, when it seems he can't do anything by himself anymore and he's not even the most powerful hero on the block. For all intents and purposes, he's a nice guy, but nothing special. Hence the problem.
(And while I think he should be depowered, I wouldn't go as far as to make him a pansy like on the Timm show. I bought the DVD sets with some gift certificates based on the Batman series and was amazed how in almost every episode, Superman is wearing a radiation/space/protective suit. He's Superman!)
Of course, this is all my opinion on how I think Superman would be better served. Others can feel free to disagree as I'm sure I don't have everything figured out.
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David Whiteley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 2748
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Posted: 06 February 2007 at 7:32pm | IP Logged | 9
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I think you have a great point, Jim. Not just for Superman but all of the
characters. So much time is spent on cross-overs that we never really get to
know and appreciate the characters on their own.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 06 February 2007 at 9:24pm | IP Logged | 10
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Well put. I agree with both Jim and David on this. In a world where everyone is special, no one is special, and this became true of Superman more so than anyone else.
Since he's the template, nearly every defining element of his character and world have been duplicated elsewhere. The one thing he used to have going for him against all this was that he was still the first. Earth-One, Earth-Two, it didn't matter. He was still the first. Post-Crisis continuity retconned him into irrelevance. Yes, everything was supposed to "build up to him," I know, but it never came off, and his prescence as a central figure HAD to be endlessly discussed by everyone around him, because it couldn't be demonstrated in any other fashion. What was true about him was made into a lie, and that lie had to be constantly mitigated with further deviations and false praises.
All-Star works in part because he does stand on his own, in a world apart from all the other heroes and super-powers. That book's reality is a fantastic, imaginative place, but in it, there is still only one Superman.
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Aaron Smith Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2006 Location: United States Posts: 10461
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Posted: 06 February 2007 at 9:26pm | IP Logged | 11
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I'll join you three in agreement on that.
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James Hanson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 February 2006 Posts: 2396
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Posted: 07 February 2007 at 4:17pm | IP Logged | 12
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I definitely think Batman should be in his own "universe".
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