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Topic: R.I.P Dave Cockrum... (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Stephen Robinson
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Posted: 28 November 2006 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 1  

Very like that, since I tried often to get work for Curt, and got much the same response.

"Not commecial enough" is the most oft-repeated phrase.

*****************

SER: It's a shame that people in the industry would think this way. When I was a kid, back in '87, I loved Jim Aparo's work on BATMAN. I hadn't been reading comics long enough at that point ot know that he was JIM APARO, the guy who did THE SPECTRE and BRAVE AND THE BOLD. To me, he was just as much as "rock star" as John Byrne on SUPERMAN or George Perez on WONDER WOMAN in that I liked how he drew Batman.

Speaking of Batman, this was my first BATMAN comic:

Again, as a 13-year-old kid, I had no idea this was drawn by DAVE COCKRUM. I just liked how he drew Batman.

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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 28 November 2006 at 11:44am | IP Logged | 2  

Having Jim Aparo on Batman was great having enjoyed his work on the character during Brave and the Bold and Batman and the Outsiders.

He and Norm Breyfogle were the Batman artists for me from 1987 - 1993 a great long period of high quality artwork.

 



Edited by Greg McPhee on 28 November 2006 at 11:46am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 28 November 2006 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 3  

One of the first things I noticed, when I joined the Industry in 1975, was that the most prevalent mantra for editors, publishers and fans alike was "What have you done for me lately?" (Remember, this was the age of "Jack the Hack" Kirby, and when no one would cross the street to piss on Steve Ditko even if he was on fire.)

Little has changed in the last 30 years, except that we get paid more -- which makes people all the more eager to tromple all over everyone who was there before them.

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Marc Foxx
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Posted: 28 November 2006 at 12:05pm | IP Logged | 4  

A late R.I.P. from me as well.  I've been out of town for the holiday and away from the computer, so it was a shock and a disappointment for me to learn of Mr. Cockum's passing.  Next to the Chief, he'll always be the guy I associate with "my" X-Men.

Condolences to his family and friends.

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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 28 November 2006 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 5  

Sadly, I didn't realize just how poorly Mr. Cockrum had been treated until reading some obituaries.

He was nearly penniless earlier this decade, a combination of the work drying up and mounting medical bills. He only received medical care because as a U.S. Navy veteran, he was able to get treatment at Veteran's Administration (V.A.) hospitals. 

When you think of how many hundreds of millions - even billions - of dollars the X-Men franchise has generated for Marvel, it's just not right that Mr. Cockrum didn't share in a small portion of that success. After all, he, along with John Byrne, Chris Claremont and Len Wein, created, designed and popularized the X-Men characters seen in today's Hollywood blockbusters.

Thankfully, in 2003, Neal Adams and author Clifford Meth negotiated a settlement with Marvel that paid Mr. Cockrum a fair royalty. They weren't asking for charity - just rightful compensation for his work. But it should've never had to come to that.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 28 November 2006 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 6  

Just to keep things on the straight and narrow here, Dave certainly deserved some sort of compensation for his part in creating what became (long after he and I were gone) Marvel's most prosperous franchise -- but he was not entitled to such compensation.

Put in simple terms, before the "revolution" of the Eighties and Nineties, the "deal" for creators and talent basically sucked. But we all knew it before we came in, and it didn't matter to most of us -- including Dave -- since we didn't get into comics for the money. How could we? There wasn't any! We got into it for the fun. We were a "generation" would could not imagine doing anything better with our lives than drawing comics. We would have done it for free if we had to.

It was only later, after things "improved" that the attitude changed, and people started coming in for the money. And they made piles of it. In three issues of SPIDER-MAN Todd McFarlane made more than Steve Ditko did for his entire run on AMAZING SPIDER-MAN -- and that's adjusted for inflation.

So, a certain level of bitterness began to grow up among the "old guys". To pull in a STAR TREK reference, Ralph Macchio once asked me if I felt like Richard Daystrom. He was not too far off the mark.

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Matt Reed
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Posted: 28 November 2006 at 1:21pm | IP Logged | 7  

A belated R.I.P. from me.  I was in Chicago with friends from the board for Thanksgiving (Simko, O'Neill, O'Brien) when Mike broke the news on Saturday night.  I knew Cockrum was in poor health, but that never really prepares you for the moment when you hear of their passing.  I enjoyed Cockrum's work, but hearing from people years before obituaries and eulogies told us this weekend about how nice a guy he really was impressed me all the more.  I hate to read the life stories of anyone who has had such an impact on their chosen profession,  yet said profession turns their back on them in their latter years.  I know quite a few professionals from Cockrum's generation who, as John has said, would have worked in comic books for free because they loved them that much.  If only THAT were the prevailing attitude among the generation working in them now that are standing on the shoulders of those who came before them. 

RIP Mr. Cockrum.  Your talent and spirit will be sorely missed.

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Bruce Buchanan
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Posted: 28 November 2006 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | 8  

Just to keep things on the straight and narrow here, Dave certainly deserved some sort of compensation for his part in creating what became (long after he and I were gone) Marvel's most prosperous franchise -- but he was not entitled to such compensation.

*****************

You are right, JB, and that's an important distinction. From a legal standpoint, Marvel didn't owe Mr. Cockrum a cent more than what they paid him at the time he worked for the company. Yes, he knew the deal coming in and agreed to work for the company of his own free will.

But from an ethical/moral/just plain doin' what's right standpoint, he deserved something for helping build the X-Men franchise. When he started on the X-Men back in 1975, who could've imagined the success it would become? Even setting aside the tremendous sales on the comic books themselves, things like X-Men-based movies, DVDs, video games, action figures, etc. weren't even in the picture.

However, those things wouldn't exist without the work of folks like John Byrne, Dave Cockrum, Chris Claremont, Len Wein, etc. So even though Marvel didn't legally owe Mr. Cocrkum any money, I do think they treated him poorly by not sharing a tiny portion of this vast fortune. It may have been legal, but it doesn't make it right.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 28 November 2006 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 9  

It may have been legal, but it doesn't make it right.

***

Correct. Of course, talking ethics in publishing is
like asking a hooker if she's a virgin.
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Brendan Howard
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Posted: 28 November 2006 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 10  

Just catching up on the news about Dave Cockrum. So sad.
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Michael Penn
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Posted: 28 November 2006 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 11  

So even though Marvel didn't legally owe Mr. Cocrkum any money, I do think they treated him poorly by not sharing a tiny portion of this vast fortune.

****

The bitter irony is that the companies who eventually reaped the profits from the work of the original creators didn't compensate them but rather shifted the rewards to those who were not responsible for the money-making creations. True, there's nothing illegal about that. But it's injury added to insult. Also, had these companies invested in the artists truly responsible for their success, the industry would might not have gone down the tubes. If you pay for a hack, you get a hack.

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Matthew Hansel
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Posted: 28 November 2006 at 2:45pm | IP Logged | 12  

I'm sorry to hear this news...especially for Mr. Cockrum's family, friends and fans.  Their lives are a little bit more empty now.

I always enjoyed Cockrum's work, but he was not a creator that I followed religiously from project to project.  When I did run across his work, it was always an enjoyable experience.

I believe my first encounter with Cockrum's work was the several issue BATMAN stand that Dave did for Denny O'Neil in the early 400s of the main BATMAN title, with writer Max Allen Collins.

RIP.

MPH

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