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Scott Rowland
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 166
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| Posted: 29 August 2006 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | 1
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K-Mart must have had a Blue Light Special on disingenuousness. Even
in those pre-internet days, it took only slightly more than a
nanosecond for this spoiler to get flashed all over the country. (There
were these things called "telephones". I hear some people still use
them to this day.) Responses I got on ALPHA FLIGHT 12 contained about a
third of the mail with some variant on "I would have enjoyed this more
if I hadn't already found out the ending." Of course, none of those people got their spoilers from this source, did they? They just plucked it out of the air. Was this a permanent, long-lasting effect? Of course not. Has anyone said it was? Of course not. But
a story I had been working on for a year was damaged for about 1/3rd of
the readers. Those people had their enjoyment spoiled. And for no good
reason. No logical reason. No rational reason. That's
what's missing here. David admits -- even flaunts -- the fact that he
handed out the xeroxes (even if he constantly "refines" the scenario to
make sure he comes out looking good). What he never, ever bothers to
attempt to explain is how REVEALING THE END OF THE STORY qualifies as
"promotion". To me, it reads, as it always has, as an "insider" saying
"Look how cool I am! I can show you stuff only people in the Office are
supposed to know about!" ****************************
I wasn't being disingenuous, I was trying to make the point that it's a little thing in the grand scheme of things, considering the length of your career and in the hundreds of thousands of people who have enjoyed your work.
David has explained that he confirmed with O'Neil that it was OK that he hand out what he says he was given to hand out. That you don't believe him doesn't mean that he hasn't attempted to explain it.
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Steve Horton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3574
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| Posted: 29 August 2006 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 2
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Not to mention previews at the end of episodes, or even promotional clips! Fox is most egregious. You cannot watch a "24" preview or promo, as often the main plot twist of the episode is given away.
I like the "Battlestar Galactica" approach. Show some spoilers in quick flashes at the beginning - not long enough to really see what's going on, just enough to whet your appetite! I believe they borrowed that trick from "Space: 1999".
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Landry Walker
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2006
Posts: 510
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| Posted: 29 August 2006 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 3
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John Byrne: "Go look up the difference between "infer" and "imply".
I infer. You imply. And it is clear from my statement that I believe
you implied this. Inference on my part is (no pun intended) implicit in this dialog.
Regardless, if it was not an act borne out of negative intent, then he was,
in
fact, just doing his job. Was it his job to screen material? Was it his
job to be aware of a major story development that was apparently a
tight-lipped secret? You say it was standard practice for the people in
his
position to waltz in and take artwork for the sake of promotion. Whose
job was it to determine what story elements should or should not be
revealed through said promotion? Who guides the material in this
instance, the editor, or the individuals in marketing. It happened all
the time? It sounds mostly like it was a policy failure.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133711
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| Posted: 29 August 2006 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 4
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I infer. You imply. And it is clear from my statement that I believe you implied this.*** You made an inference then. Back to square one. Unless you sometimes go by the name Kreskin.
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Ian M. Palmer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: 29 August 2006 at 3:53pm | IP Logged | 5
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I'm not irrelevant. I'm a hippopotamus.
And also, apparently, a Marx Brothers fan.
IMP.
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Matthew McCallum
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 2711
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| Posted: 29 August 2006 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 6
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From what I've read on the PAD page, he pretty much washes his hands of the matter: I was doing my job, it was Denny's fault, I asked Denny if it would be okay...
If we want to find logic in the "conflicting" stories, think about this for a minute: if by his own admission PAD was aware enough to ask Denny if those pages were okay (i.e. he realized that a cat might be released from its bag), then why should PAD be shocked to learn the creator of the work became a bit hot under the collar at the release?
"I was just following orders" is never a good defense...
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Landry Walker
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2006
Posts: 510
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| Posted: 29 August 2006 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 7
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Me: "I infer. You imply. And it is clear from my statement that I believe
you implied this. Inference on my part is (no pun intended) implicit in this dialog."
John Byrne: "You made an inference then. Back to square one."
As I said: "Inference on my part is (no pun intended) implicit in this dialog."
So your point? Of course I have attempted to infer meaning from your
statements. You of course, are in the position to correct said
inferences and clarify your actual intent. To that end...
...if it was not an act borne out of negative intent, then he was,
in
fact, just doing his job. Was it his job to screen material? Was it his
job to be aware of a major story development that was apparently a
tight-lipped secret? You say it was standard practice for the people in
his
position to waltz in and take artwork for the sake of promotion. Whose
job was it to determine what story elements should or should not be
revealed through said promotion? Who guides the material in this
instance, the editor, or the individuals in marketing. It happened all
the time? It sounds mostly like it was a policy failure.
Now, we can dance around the definitions or appropriate applications of
infer and imply for as long as
you like. Or you can address the actual body of my posts. Your choice,
obviously. You were there at the time. You are in the position to
clarify the details surrounding this event. Who was responsible for
determining what material was suitable for promotion? Who was
responsible for determining what story threads should be kept secret?
Who was responsible for properly communicating this or enforcing this?
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Arvid Spejare
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 386
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| Posted: 29 August 2006 at 4:08pm | IP Logged | 8
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Personally, I'm with the "If some not-exactly-famous sales guy showed artwork not okayed by the editorial which spoiled something big in one of the top selling books, then why in the world wasn't he fired about ten minutes later?"-camp.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36132
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| Posted: 29 August 2006 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | 9
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John Byrne wrote:
| Yeah. TV GUIDE has been doing this for years. Their issues come out the week before the broadcast, yet often their capsule desciptions contain information that should not be known until the previous -- ie, the week the issue ships -- episode has been viewed. I have sometimes been able to follow whole series (DALLAS, for instance) in this fashion, without ever watching a single episode! |
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You know what's recently been bugging me in this same vein? Put a DVD of BATTLESTAR GALACTICA into your player. Chose an episode, any episode. Read the menu. IT'S A FRIGGIN' SPOILER!! The entire plot of the episode is encapsulated in one paragraph. What's up with that? WHY? Makes no sense to me at all, but it bugs the ever-lovin' crap out of me!
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Steve Horton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3574
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| Posted: 29 August 2006 at 4:13pm | IP Logged | 10
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Matt: Arggg! It's getting to so you have to hit Play blind without reading the screen. Stupid!
At least the FRIENDS DVDs put the spoilers in the episode guide written all over the packaging instead. Not much better, but better!
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Troy Nunis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4598
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| Posted: 29 August 2006 at 4:19pm | IP Logged | 11
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i've long been bothred by DVD-TV packaging, from Buffy DVDs which show key stills montaged in the packing and the episode menues, to HOUSE season 1, which had the paragraph spoilers - they are clearly being made for people who have alreayd seen the shows run on TV and not in mind for people who are watching it for the first time on DVD
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 29 August 2006 at 4:35pm | IP Logged | 12
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"
Guardian dies?"
LOL
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