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Darragh Greene
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1812
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 1
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Miller's Batman is not a travesty.
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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 7:49am | IP Logged | 2
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You've yet to convince me, Darragh.
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James Revilla
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2266
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 3
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Thank you Matthew...what I was saying to a tee
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133769
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 9:13am | IP Logged | 4
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NO Morrison's "wink and nod" type "jokes"...*** Remember when a "wink to the audience" meant the characters were acknowledging that the readers were in on punchline of the story, not that the readers were eager to mock the genre?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 5
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Miller's Batman dating all the way back to Dark Knight Returns is a travesty.*** I disagree. The point so many missed in DKR was that Bruce had retired, and therefore betrayed his oath to his parents. This had pushed him over the edge, so that when he adopted the Batman identity again, he was, indeed, "crazy". The main thrust of the story is about his recovery.
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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 9:33am | IP Logged | 6
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I got that, JB, but the problem that I had with it -- in addition to the fact
that writers afterwards misunderstood that very concept that you just laid
out -- is that it just wasn't that well-executed. The narrative is all over
the place and utterly inconsistent (you could tell half-way through he
read Watchmen and decided that was what he wanted to do with it),
the layout and storytelling is confusing at best (I sat and stared at that
conversation between Bruce Wayne and James Gordon on page three of
the first issue for a long time before I could figure out who the hell was
talking from word balloon to word balloon --and that was only one of
most pages), the characterization of the ancillary characters never rings
true to me (particularly the portrayal of Two-Face, the Joker, and
Catwoman), the numerous references to pop culture at the time come
across as utterly twee...
When push comes to shove in regards to DKR, I think there's some
phenomenal coloring work by Lynn Varley, a couple of decent panels of
otherwise inconsistent art, and a decent idea for a story that was poorly
executed and extremely overhyped and unjustly adored.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36158
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 9:47am | IP Logged | 7
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Wow. You and I are really in strong disagreement where DKR is concerned, JM. I had no problem following the dialogue, thought the characters well fleshed out, and I don't get, at all, a WATCHMAN vibe from it. Far from poorly executed, I think it's a wonderful piece of work. Seriously, I don't know how to even address the pop culture references because I've never heard the word "twee" as a descriptive word or otherwise. Different strokes, I guess.
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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 9:49am | IP Logged | 8
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Twee. I was using the American Heritage definition. Dictionary.com is your
friend.
[edited to add] And we've had this exact same conversation before, Matt. I
suspect you block it out because you don't want to imagine I'd dislike DKR
as much as I do.
Edited by John Mietus on 27 August 2006 at 9:50am
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Jeff Lommel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1039
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 9:57am | IP Logged | 9
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I agree with Matt on DKR, it, along with Man of Steel, brought me back into comics. Two more unrelated projects you won't find...but I digress.
I also agree with JMs statement about what came later. Seems like everybody and their brother who wrote Batman started trying to turn him into the character seen in DKR. Talk about missing the point!
I can only think of a few exceptions, Wolfman, Grant, Dixon, maybe one or two others. Batman hasn't been fun for a long time. Until now.
Edited by Jeff Lommel on 27 August 2006 at 9:58am
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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
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Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 10:02am | IP Logged | 10
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Jeff, don't forget Mike W. Barr.
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David Whiteley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 2748
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 10:05am | IP Logged | 11
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Mike Barr also wrote a strong Batman, in Batman and the Outsiders and his run on Detective Comics.
I enjoyed Batman too but the last two issues did seem inspired by Watchmen, with the ban on heroes bit. Even so, I liked it enough to start saving for the Absolute edition of Dark Knight.
Edited by David Whiteley on 27 August 2006 at 10:05am
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36158
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 12
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John Mietus wrote:
Twee. I was using the American Heritage definition. Dictionary.com is your
friend. |
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No need to get snarky, John. "Twee" is not a common word. Not all that surprising that I've never heard it before.
QUOTE:
And we've had this exact same conversation before, Matt. I
suspect you block it out because you don't want to imagine I'd dislike DKR
as much as I do. |
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No, I remember. Not blocking anything out. But much the same way you wish to express your dislike of the book when discussion about it pops up, I wish to express that I really enjoy it and don't consider it overrated or unjustly adored. Like I said, different strokes.
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Topic Closed)
