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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36158
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| Posted: 26 August 2006 at 8:31pm | IP Logged | 1
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Jeff, you'd have to give me specific examples of what you claim Lee wrote that made fun of the conceits of the genre. I can't possibly debate this on something as general as "I'd be willing to bet that Stan Lee has scripted more books with little pokes like that in one year of his career than Morrison has in his entire body of work. It's not even a contest." Not possible.
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Roger Jackson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 October 2005
Posts: 260
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| Posted: 26 August 2006 at 8:37pm | IP Logged | 2
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I'm not baiting, Wes, I honestly think some of you are making more of this than it is! Every interview I've seen with Morrison makes me believe that he a huge fan of silver age classics!
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Wes Wescovich
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1726
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| Posted: 26 August 2006 at 9:10pm | IP Logged | 3
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It's entirely possible that he is, Roger. The fact remains that he has characters make remarks about their own costumes that leads to the belief that he has issues with modern comics being portrayed like those that you say he loves. I don't read minds. I just look at the evidence presented and draw my own conclusions.
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Jeff Lommel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1039
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| Posted: 26 August 2006 at 9:13pm | IP Logged | 4
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Matt, most of my comics are in storage elsewhere from a move last year, haven't really found time to get them here, so I can't pull out my "Essentials" right off for examples. I know that he's called (in the comics) super heroes "the long underwear crowd", had the Thing make fun of his costume, and other such "asides" in many 60s Marvel comics. In an early Avengers issue he had the Wasp comment on how "corny" Thor talks, and Thor made comments about the Hulks appearance (repulsive clothing, pre-ripped-pants). Iron Man makes a comment about how silly he feels while wheeling around on roller-wheels charging his armor. All of the Avengers make fun of Ant Mans powers in one particular issue (a plot device only, but still it is done).
And again, I'm not seeing it as making fun of the conceits of the genre in a mean-spirited way, any more than I'm seeing it as Morrison doing so in Batman. I see total love of the material in every word Stan Lee wrote. Mostly due to that aforementioned X-Men panel, I'm not sure I'd go that far with Morrison, but I think he's getting raked over the coals unfairly for this particular one.
Edited by Jeff Lommel on 26 August 2006 at 9:26pm
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Jeff Lommel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1039
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| Posted: 26 August 2006 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | 5
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As an aside, while looking for examples, paging through one of the books I do have here, Essential Avengers, it makes me really want to read it! I haven't begun it yet, still working on my goal of reading all of the Fantastic Four at once (never read much of them either, other than the first 4 or 5, then JBs collected stuff). Fantastic Four #49 might be the greatest comic I've ever read.
Edited by Jeff Lommel on 26 August 2006 at 9:24pm
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Roger Jackson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 October 2005
Posts: 260
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| Posted: 26 August 2006 at 10:01pm | IP Logged | 6
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You could say that all previous accusations of "mindreading" over the years were just those people drawing conclusions, couldn't you? And since when did making a funny remark about something you love become mockery, or having issues with it? Just because you love something, does that mean you can't kid it once in awhile?
edit: tense
Edited by Roger Jackson on 26 August 2006 at 10:04pm
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Wes Wescovich
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1726
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| Posted: 26 August 2006 at 10:58pm | IP Logged | 7
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Very civil, but still very much missing the point. I'm done here.
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Roger Jackson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 October 2005
Posts: 260
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| Posted: 26 August 2006 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | 8
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Wait---don't go! "Missing the point" is a cop-out!
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Roger Jackson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 October 2005
Posts: 260
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| Posted: 26 August 2006 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | 9
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...and I'm STILL astonished that people are going after Morrison for one line of flip dialog, while Frank Miller has done more damage to the Batman character with his recent "work" than an infinite number of stinking monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters!
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Jeff Lommel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1039
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 6:41am | IP Logged | 10
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Sorry Roger, I don't see Miller getting a pass, not at all. Lots of people have commented on his Batman, not so much in this thread, but plenty of other posts. Nobody is singling out Morrison, this thread has just become about him and not so much about Miller. Millers All-Star Batman is a travesty, I dropped it after one issue, during the reading of which I actually said out loud, "what the fu**".
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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 7:14am | IP Logged | 11
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Miller's Batman dating all the way back to Dark Knight Returns is a travesty.
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Matthew Hansel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3469
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| Posted: 27 August 2006 at 7:15am | IP Logged | 12
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the poster complains about comic books "not being all ages anymore" and then notes that JB warned about this in NEXT MEN.
NEXT MEN!!!!! - a mature readers book!!
...and
then he finishes by complaining that JB can't go back to his "mature
readers" super hero series, because mature readers super hero books
have destroyed the industry!
My head is spinning.
****************************
In a HEALTHY industry, there ought to be room for ALL KINDS of books, genres, formats and the like. HOWEVER, in the EXTREMELY depressed marketplace that we find ourselves today, a pale shadow of what it used to be, there isn't much wiggle room, and with the industry more or less down to ONE dominant genre, SUPERHEROES, there is even less wiggle room for the type of self-loathing nonsense that is evident is many writers works.
If the industry were in the shape it was in back in the 1950, or even 1960s when there were plenty of titles in plenty of genres all popularly available and sales were very healthy...then, MAYBE, you'd be able to get a pass under a mature-content-self loathing-whining-damn I look silly in spandex-please mock me you ubercool fanboys-book, but, right now, when we need new readers who will enjoy the stories and ACCEPT the conceits of the genre and enjoy the format the story is presented in, NO Morrison's "wink and nod" type "jokes" are not only unneeded, they are unwanted.
MPH
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Topic Closed)
