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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 26 August 2006 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 1
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David, my problem with those books, though I buy them, is that the art usually sucks a whole lot.
Though they have great covers. My favorite books are Exterminators and
Local but I hate the artwork in both books! It kind of annoys me
reading comics with lousy drawings... I'm enjoying Eternals too, except
for the interior art... Why didn't they get Rick Berry to draw it???
Hargh! I think that I would've been on cloud 9...
As for costumes, besides, Fantastic Four were wearing civilian clothing 90% of the time
and it still kicked ass. Same for X-Men in the 80s or Iron Man. Though
all 3 books have been a real dud since the 90s if you ask me. I don't
think it's the costumes, it's the lack of imagination and action.
Blergh! Hopefully I'm done making incoherent rants about why I hate
comics so much for a while now.
Edited by Martin Redmond on 26 August 2006 at 5:53pm
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David Whiteley Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 2748
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Posted: 26 August 2006 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 2
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Now you thoroughly confused me - is it or isn't it the costumes?
I hear and agree about the lack of imagination and action. Part of the reason I hated the term "widescreen comics" from about five years ago is it seemed to ignore the "widescreen" big whammo bammo action depiicted just as amazingly by earlier artists. Someone read about the fate of the Heli-Carrier in JB's She-Hulk graphic novel and tell me that wasn't special effects at their finest. I like the costumes but don't need to have characters in them to enjoy, but if the heroes won't wear their costumes (or worser still, mock them), I have to quetsion why the creators are working in super-hero comics.
Suggestions for some good "costumeless" comics: Dead Rising, Y the Last Man, 100 Bullets, Stray Bullets, the various Sin City Comics, Give Me Liberty, Storyteller.
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Martin Redmond Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2006 Posts: 3882
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Posted: 26 August 2006 at 6:13pm | IP Logged | 3
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The answer is I don't really care about the costumes. But I like civilian attire better.
As for action. Reading the Essentials trades, I'm amazed at how much
they remind me of videogames I've played. You hear these comments like
"we're competing with videogames". Well, the 60s did a better job at it
than the current generation of comics in my opinion. There's strategy
in those, conflict, smart AIs to fight. It's like all that stuff was
made for people with ADD disorder (like me) and the current stuff
is for people on Ritalin drooling in a wheelchair.
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Eric Kleefeld Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4422
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Posted: 26 August 2006 at 6:19pm | IP Logged | 4
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I like it when the X-Men wear uniforms. It was done that way in X-Men #1, and it makes sense for characters created as a team--Fantastic Four, Challengers of the Unknown, the X-Men as originally done--to wear matching outfits.
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Roger Jackson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 October 2005 Posts: 260
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Posted: 26 August 2006 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | 5
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I disagree...the sky is indeed falling. Worse and worse comic books are being put out for older and older auidences making the characters, which were once all ages, now completely different entites altogether. And as long as they hire people who dont respect the damn genre, the sky will continue to fall and people will say we are making something out of nothing. And then, one day the comics, who have sealed themselves off from their base market, will wither, the prices will skyrocket and one by one...will die. I know because John Byrne told me so over 10 years ago in the back of Next Men. So dont say the sky isnt falling then ask when the JB will pick up Next Men again. =====================
I'm not sure I see your point, James, since Next Men wasn't a superhero book or an all-ages book. That's not offered snarkily, I'm just not making the connection.
the poster complains about comic books "not being all ages anymore" and then notes that JB warned about this in NEXT MEN.
NEXT MEN!!!!! - a mature readers book!!
...and then he finishes by complaining that JB can't go back to his "mature readers" super hero series, because mature readers super hero books have destroyed the industry!
My head is spinning.
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James Revilla Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2266
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Posted: 26 August 2006 at 7:06pm | IP Logged | 6
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I'm not sure I see your point, James, since Next Men wasn't a superhero book or an all-ages book. That's not offered snarkily, I'm just not making the connection.
Ok let me try to explain it this way...this kind of industry, self loathing crap that comes from the "new and hip" writers is an indication the sky is falling. They write comic books that make fun of comic books and the idiotcy that they should be. Silly costumes, stupid names, all of it. If comics were still being written today for the auidence they were intended for thse people wouldn't be able to slip this little, oh superheros are silly and costumes look dumb into the pages
The industry that once had 1,000,000 books a month sales is not even a shell of itself, because of this think that we must write stories to the every aging fanbase who still read comics books, instead of just making them comic books that anyone can enjoy. So the industry shrinks, less and less books come out. The books that do come out are raised in price since less people are buying them, and some books get killed before they even have a chance to find an auidence because of this catch 22 cool speak.
What I said before was if Morrison wants to go mock superheroes and write that kind of story....go make his own damn worlds to mock. But coming on to a flagship title like Batman and then to still mock it, thats disrespectful to the field. I never said no more adult books, but hell even JB made DU and Babe when he was doing Next Men. 2 books that weren't adult orintated and were accessible.
People ask why doesnt JB finish Next Men ? Cause the market wont support it. The same market that Morrison is shrinking with his, spandex are for fools they should be members of the Village People instead of "costumes" mindthink. So you say the sky isnt falling ? I say it fell, has fallen on dozens of titles the past few years that never got a shot out of the gate past the every cool and hip comic book owners who will tell you, that comic sucks, that comic isnt in continuity and that comic is way cool cause Superman said fuck in it.
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Gene Arnold Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 40
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Posted: 26 August 2006 at 7:21pm | IP Logged | 7
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I think someone needs a nap.
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Jeff Lommel Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1039
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Posted: 26 August 2006 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | 8
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One point has been brought up a couple of times now, but I've yet to see it addressed. I'd be willing to bet that Stan Lee has scripted more books with little pokes like that in one year of his career than Morrison has in his entire body of work. It's not even a contest. So do you guys think that Stan Lee mocks the genre? It sounds like if Stan was writing the kind of books he wrote in the "Marvel Age of Comics" today, you'd all be criticizing him and not reading. I can't see the difference, and I've tried.
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Wes Wescovich Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1726
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Posted: 26 August 2006 at 7:44pm | IP Logged | 9
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Jeff, the difference is that Lee has the characters saying "You look silly." Morrison has the characters saying "I look silly"
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Roger Jackson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 October 2005 Posts: 260
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Posted: 26 August 2006 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 10
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And as a result, he hates the characters? There's some mindreading going on here!
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Wes Wescovich Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1726
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Posted: 26 August 2006 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 11
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Get a clue, Roger, and stop baiting.
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Jeff Lommel Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1039
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Posted: 26 August 2006 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | 12
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That X-Men panel was cringe-inducingly awful, and way out of character. The other examples posted are not, given the circumstances. I have to wonder if there is/was some editorial mandate to make the characters more "realistic" that he was following. Given most of what they're putting out at Marvel these days, I wouldn't be surprised, but that's all speculation of course.
Again, Morrison isn't my favorite writer, he's very hit or miss with me, but it's not because I think he mocks the genre. I'm pointing this out again so I don't come across as some Morrison-is-god zealot, but just a comics fan trying to find some good stuff in todays market. I think this Batman run counts, and I hate to see it trashed on one line uttered by a character under the influence of Joker Venom!
Edited by Jeff Lommel on 26 August 2006 at 7:53pm
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