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Dave Phelps
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 25 August 2006 at 11:24am | IP Logged | 1
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In addition to the two panels listed, there was a talk show host who mentioned that Animal Man's costume didn't leave much to the imagination ("eh, girls?") and I think Cliff Steele knocked the idea in an early issue of Morrison's Doom Patrol run. Can't remember any easy shots in the JLA run. The closest I can think of was the scene with Metamorpho's funeral where no one showed up because they figured he'd be back soon enough.
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Matthew Hansel
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Joined: 18 April 2004
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| Posted: 25 August 2006 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 2
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Morrison's attempt at "explaining" Son of the Demon is not satisfactory to my reading--as, as way points out, the Batman was not drugged, and didn't even pretend to be, in the scene in which this child was conceived.
JB puts it best for WHY the book ought not be considered canon, as it has the Batman engaging in unsafe sex...which, if I not mistaken, is one of several problems Denny had with it...
MPH
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Roger A Ott II
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Joined: 29 April 2004
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Posts: 5371
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| Posted: 25 August 2006 at 11:47am | IP Logged | 3
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You'd think he'd have a condom pouch in his utility belt...
I joke, but I've probably just given somebody out there a story idea...
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Stephen Robinson
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| Posted: 25 August 2006 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 4
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Morrison's attempt at "explaining" Son of the Demon is not satisfactory to my reading--as, as way points out, the Batman was not drugged, and didn't even pretend to be, in the scene in which this child was conceived.
*******************************
It's possible that Morrison is alluding to "I Now Pronounce You Batman and Wife," in which Talia "marries" Batman while he's drugged (granted, I haven't read that story -- I just know the basic plotline).
********************************
JB puts it best for WHY the book ought not be considered canon, as it has the Batman engaging in unsafe sex...which, if I not mistaken, is one of several problems Denny had with it...
*****************
Didn't Denny edit the book? Or was he not Batman editor at the time?
I can't speak for Denny but my major problem with SOTD is Batman actually agreeing work with Ra's al Ghul. It boggled the mind.
Also, Talia is a villain. I can see Batman being attracted to her but he would never pursue a relationship with someone who is a willing accomplice to Ra's al Ghul's crimes. Catwoman at least doesn't sink to genocide.
Edited by Stephen Robinson on 25 August 2006 at 11:55am
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Glenn Greenberg
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| Posted: 25 August 2006 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 5
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<<the book ought not be considered canon, as it has the Batman
engaging in unsafe sex...which, if I not mistaken, is one of several
problems Denny had with it...>>
Key thing to remember is that in SON OF THE DEMON, Batman and Talia
considered themselves married. It goes back to a Denny O'Neil/Michael
Golden story from the late 70s titled "I Now Pronounce You Batman and
Wife," in which Batman and Talia are (supposedly) married within the
confines of Ra's Al Ghul's homeland or somesuch.
Denny says that Mike Barr misunderstood the finer points of the story
when he used it as the springboard for SON OF THE DEMON.
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Glenn Greenberg
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| Posted: 25 August 2006 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 6
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If memory serves, Dick Giordano edited SON OF THE DEMON.
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Matthew Hansel
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| Posted: 25 August 2006 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 7
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Denny did NOT edit SON OF THE DEMON, I believe it was DICK GIORDANO, but it might have been RELEASED while Denny was editor, as it took MWB and Jerry Bingham some time to produce it.
MPH
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John Mietus
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| Posted: 25 August 2006 at 11:57am | IP Logged | 8
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I remember loving the Jerry Bingham art in that. I ought to pull that out and
re-read it when I get home tonight.
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Stéphane Garrelie
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Joined: 05 August 2005
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| Posted: 25 August 2006 at 12:43pm | IP Logged | 9
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Jerry Bingham is an awesome artist. I discovered his work on the David Michelinie/Bob Layton Iron-Man, and since this time he always was a favorite of mine, and is still today.
www.Jerrybingham.com
Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 25 August 2006 at 12:46pm
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Scott Rowland
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| Posted: 25 August 2006 at 12:56pm | IP Logged | 10
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I had second thoughts about what I had originally posted here.
I'll just say that a) I didn't notice Morrison had a habit of making jokes about costumes, and b) in the first Spider-Man story, Stan refers to long underwear characters. It's not an issue that's significant enough to prevent me from enjoying stories on their other merits.
Oh, and c) Mike Barr wrote some nice Batman stories in his day. I hope that he's making lots of money off the recent reprinting of Son of the Demon.
Edited by Scott Rowland on 25 August 2006 at 1:04pm
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Brian Lockhart
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Joined: 24 May 2004
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| Posted: 25 August 2006 at 1:49pm | IP Logged | 11
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Scott - Great post.
Patrick Drury-
Sorry if my post was a little aggressive. I just find this whole debate kind of shameful.
I greatly respect JB as an artist and I greatly respect his work ethic
but it gets me down to have him participating in this, just as much as
it would get me down if/when Morrison or any other artist would go
after JB.
As a Morrison fan I also take it personally, just as I expect JB's fans often take criticism of him personally.
There's an attitude that comes through in the criticism of Morrison -
kind of a "well, if YOU admire this guy's work then YOU must share
whatever views I BELIEVE he has towards superheros and the genre."
And there's also this "sour grapes" vibe to this whole exercise. Let's
face it, the creator whose boards we're posting on currently has no
announced projects, while Morrison is working on two of DC's icons,
plus a well-publicized "event" book (52) and wrapping up another
"event" - Seven Soldiers.
Trust me, if I thought either Grant Morrison or John Byrne or any of
the other creators who I follow treated the characters or genre with
disdain, I wouldn't be buying the books.
Case in point -
Warren Ellis' Nextwave. I've flipped through the book a few times
because he is a well-regarded writer and it sounded kind of quirky.
But, personally, I found the book to be a mockery of comics. If some of
you think Morrison occasionally winks at the reader, every issue of
Nextwave reads to me like a giant, knowing wink about how goofy it all
is.
Here's my point - Maybe many of you are fans of the title. And maybe
many of you would disagree with me. I'm not trying to start a new round
of back and forth over Ellis and Nextwave. I'm just using Nextwave as
an example of how there actually exists a book out there which I
purposefully avoid because, in my opinion, it does mock the genre. I'm
not avoiding Morrison's stuff because it just doesn't read that way to
me. I never feel like Grant is treating his stories or the characters
like a joke. I often feel just the opposite - that he is celebrating
them. I look at something like JLA and, in particular, DC One Million
as a love letter to the DCU, the stories that came before in the Silver
Age, and all the creative possibilities they opened up.
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John Byrne
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Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 25 August 2006 at 1:54pm | IP Logged | 12
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I greatly respect JB as an artist and I greatly respect his work ethic but it gets me down to have him participating in this, just as much as it would get me down if/when Morrison or any other artist would go after JB.**** "Go after"? Is it now considered some sort of attack to state the truth? I invite anyone who wants to to "go after" me -- provided they limit their arsenal to the truth.
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