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Robert Last Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 February 2006 Posts: 615
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Posted: 25 August 2006 at 9:27am | IP Logged | 1
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Can't say I've ever seen that excuse Joe. Perhaps you could give an example?
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Martin Hobson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 November 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 102
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Posted: 25 August 2006 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 2
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I don't see many similarities in the works of Moore and Millar. Millar has more in common with Ellis and Ennis I think, much more focused on pulling out the "cool moment", the snappy one-liner, than the more character-led Moore. I don't mean that as a criticism as I like most of what each of these writers do.
As for Millar's stylistic change from Superman Adventures, he's just reverted to his previous style, used on Red Razors, Big Dave, Swamp Thing etc. I don't recall him ever saying that he's reverted to a more financially profitable style.
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Rick Whiting Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 April 2004 Posts: 2227
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Posted: 25 August 2006 at 10:01am | IP Logged | 3
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What Mark Millar either does'nt realize or refuses to admit, is that comic book adaptions of animated tv series based on existing superhero characters who already have their own comic, NEVER sell well. So no matter how well Superman Adventures was writen or how many awards Millar's run had won, the book did'nt have a chance in hell of selling well, especiaslly in the direct market. Most readers would rather buy/read the "real" Superman comic, not the out of continuity animated book.
If he would actually do some research, Millar would learn that all ages code approved superhero comics like Claremont's X-Men,JB's Fantstic Four,Walt Simonson's Thor,Frank Miller's Daredevil,PAD's Hulk,FAbians New Warriors,Larry Hama's Wolverine,and Larry Hama's G.I. JOE (which was not a superhero book) all sold really well for many years.
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 25 August 2006 at 10:08am | IP Logged | 4
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Perhaps somewhat more on-topic: how do you all feel about Morrison's re-introduction of Batman's son by Talia?
(FYI I have been reading the book, and am enjoying Kubert's art greatly.)
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133704
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Posted: 25 August 2006 at 10:39am | IP Logged | 5
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"It's okay to have unsafe sex, kids! Batman does it!"
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Robert Last Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 February 2006 Posts: 615
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Posted: 25 August 2006 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 6
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Talia "Have you forgotten that night you and I shared under the desert moon above the Tropic of Cancer?"
Batman "I remember being drugged senseless and refusing to cooperate in some depraved eugenics experiment. That night maybe?"
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Brian Floyd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 8678
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Posted: 25 August 2006 at 10:45am | IP Logged | 7
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When I was starting a subscription service at the new comics shop that opened up here a few months back, one of the books I added was Batman, because he's my favorite DC hero. I wish I had known at the time that Morrison was taking over, because I would have waited for him to leave the book.
The sad thing is, Morrison is a good writer - a bit overrated, in my opinion, but good - but his obvious contempt for superheroes - at least, superheroes in costume - takes a lot of the enjoyment from his writing away.
And I agree completely that Jason Todd shouldn't have been brought back. Hopefully, someday the Joker will get to kill him again, and Batman will take precautions to make sure that someone can't aquire his corpse for another dip in the Lazarus Pit.
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Patrick Drury Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 December 2005 Posts: 695
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Posted: 25 August 2006 at 10:45am | IP Logged | 8
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Luckily, any kid who would be dumb enough to have unsafe sex because BATMAN did it, probably doesn't have the option anyway.
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 25 August 2006 at 10:46am | IP Logged | 9
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If someone writes a story in which a drunk in a bar says Superman looks goofy in his costume, we can write it off as the inconsequential comments of a drunk in a bar. If, in another story, the Joker makes a snide remark about Robin's little green panties, we can chuckle, because that's what the Joker would do. If another tale gives us a cop wishing the "freaks in long underwear" wouldn't get involved, again, it stands on its own as a reasonable comment.
But if all three come from the same writer (and these are not specific quotes), and the same writer has done a hundred stories, and every story has some variant on this kind of derisive commentary -- if the readers find themselves expecting such a comment -- then a pathology emerges and it ceases to be about "context". It becomes a question of why a writer assigned to superhero adventures would feel the need to mock the most basic concept of the form, every time.
+++++++++++++++++++
This is what I find to be jaw-droppingly bizarre. Why mock the basic conceits of the business one gets a check from?
It's like saying, "I love to make and sell pumpkin pies, and I also love the taste of them so much, I could eat them forever. But, why does the crust have to look so gay? And why does the pumpkin filling have to be orange? And why does it have to be a pumpkin pie, anyway?".
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Mark McKay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2265
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Posted: 25 August 2006 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 10
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Oh, I do think Morrison likes to wink at the audience. And I think some of Morrison's fans like it it when he winks at them.
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Patrick Drury Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 December 2005 Posts: 695
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Posted: 25 August 2006 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 11
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It's like saying, "I love to make and sell pumpkin pies, and I also
love the taste of them so much, I could eat them forever. But, why does
the crust have to look so gay? And why does the pumpkin filling have to be orange? And why does it have to be a pumpkin pie, anyway?". ============================
I'd say it's more like selling pumpkin pies for a living but still thinking it's funny to throw one in somebody's face every once in a while. It ignores the intended use for the pie, but it doesn't mean you don't love pie. It just means you're love doesn't equal inflexible, paralyzing devotion.
You couldn't find a bigger Morrison fan than me, but I groan whenever Morrison does one of his "costume" jokes - but only because I find it kind of tired and unfunny, not because I find it damaging to the genre.
The idea that there are self-hating comic book fans guffawing all over the world, talking about how "kewl" it is, just seems kind of stupid. At the most, I would assume some people snicker and then move on. But then again, I'm no mindreader...
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 25 August 2006 at 11:02am | IP Logged | 12
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Perhaps somewhat more on-topic: how do you all feel about Morrison's re-introduction of Batman's son by Talia? *******************
Kids are almost always a bad idea because they represent the passage of time rather starkly.
That said, it would be easy enough to ignore Batman's "son" -- his paternity is a revelation from a bad guy (and note that Talia even now refers to Batman by her father's honorific of "Detective"), after all. Also, Batman was drugged during the conception so it's possible that it never even happened, which I'd prefer as I'm not big on Batman having been raped.
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