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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7526
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 12:47pm | IP Logged | 1
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Robert, I don't know if there's any way to reconcile the two. Star power *may* have some impact on sales (to cite Matt's example above, Jim Lee's art helped sales on Superman and Batman titles) but the perks of being a star mean that the checks and balances that help ensure professionalism are eroded if not demolished.
As for Wildsiderz, my LCS manager says he can't give the book away. Jeff's a good artist but never learned how to get pages done routinely and reliably.
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Chris Schillig Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 36
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 2
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The "write it for the trade" mentality plays into this. If I sit down with my 2006 trade paperback copy of SUPERSTRONG GUY #1-12, a classic story with beautiful artwork and sharp storytelling on every page, do I care that issue 5 shipped two months late when originally released in 1989?
Probably not.
But if I was a reader in 1989, I would care!
It's part of the eroding work ethic that is evident not only in comic books, but everywhere! I work part-time at a newspaper, and today the editor said he gave one of his writers an artificial deadline on purpose, even though he knew the writer would not meet it. His reasoning was the writer would be closer to completion because of the artificial deadline, and his chances of getting the material when he REALLY needs it -- later this week -- improved.
And you know what, he was right: The writer missed the deadline. I understand why the editor did it, short term, but it's like he's slitting his own throat, long term, because it teaches even LESS respect for deadlines.
Sometimes, a writer and artist need that extra time to create something REALLY special. Other times, maybe MOST times, it's just poor time management.
Edited by Chris Schillig on 25 July 2006 at 12:52pm
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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7526
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 3
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It's a good point, Chris. A reader ten years after the fact won't give a damn if the book's issues were scattered over three years-- they get the benefit of all the work, in their hands, right that second.
As for the writer... if this slob ever figures it out, he'll blow his BS deadlines and eventually get canned. And the editor is hurting his own cause because he isn't taking responsibility for an underperforming employee. (Much like many comic book editors who either can't or won't address underperforming creatives.)
And let's be honest, how many books in the last 15 years really needed more than a month to look incredibly special? I can't think of a single one.
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Bruce Buchanan Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 4797
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 1:02pm | IP Logged | 4
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Here's a related question for JB (or anyone with a knowledge of the industry's inner workings:
Back in the late 1970s, I can remember some books being on a bi-monthly schedule. Not that the books were late - they just were published once every two months. I think Daredevil may have even been one of those for a while in the pre-Miller days. So was Dr. Strange, I think.
My question is were these books on a bi-monthly schedule because of talent issues (i.e. the writer and artist couldn't do a monthly book)? Or was there another reason unrelated to talent (distribution, sales, etc.)?
Anyway, it seems to be that if you can only do six books a year, it's better to promise only six books a year, rather than promising 12 and only delivering six.
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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6413
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 5
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I like to call it "lack of compromise".
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Eric Lund Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2074
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 6
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The "Fans" by and large think the current crap coming out is better than the Lee/Ditko Spider-Man run and go on ad-nauseum about how the coloring is better and the paper is better and the covers are iconic as opposed to having something narrative... yadda, yadda, yadda....
At least that is the mantra Wizard spews and I can't count how many "fans" I have run accross that think anything older than 1999 is stupid and cheezy....
The work in a very few cases is better... The Neal Adams influence has spawned some great artists who have carried the torch but by and large the overall product is much worse... The writing is non-existant and the concepts recycled and rehashed....So much so that you would be hard pressed to find anything original or groundbreaking that has not been done before decades past.
Unfortunately I dont think pointing it out will make one bit of difference... People who buy 10,000 copies of Civil War don't care... this is the HOT ...HIP...thing right now and they are gonna be a part of it.... It isnt about a story anymore or a concept it is fashion and keeping up with what is hot and trendy....
I doubt we will see the likes of a Lee or Kirby or a Ditko or a Swan or a Buscema again.... I dont think that that level of professionalism or reliability or talent will appear in the comic medium which is not inspiring young kids to pick up pencil and paper... I think that the comic medium mostly is inspiring 30 + year olds to pic up Wonder Woman so they can see if they can see her nipples poking through her top....
The culture has changed and with it the dynamic has changed....Deadlines and Schedules dont hold much meaning anymore.... but celebrity and being part of the trend and the "club"....
It is sad but I think that we will not see it come back...
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Ian M. Palmer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004 Posts: 1342
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 1:31pm | IP Logged | 7
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If it's a Byrne, Kane, Kirby, Buscema or Colan pickup, who needs a bloody Ferrari?
IMP.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133551
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 1:44pm | IP Logged | 8
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I tend to like the Neal Adams style photorealism, but I also like the more expressionistic art quite a bit.**** You'd have to go a long way to find a dull page of art by Neal Adams. His stuff is somehow magically photorealistic and expressionistic, both at the same once. Consider this, one of my favorite pages of his, on which "nothing happens", yet every line jumps out at the reader:
(Note, too, that this page is drawn to what is basically a three tier grid, a la Kirby or Ditko, and has virtually no backgrounds!)
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 9
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Sweet.
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Brandon Pennison Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2006 Location: United States Posts: 472
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 2:40pm | IP Logged | 10
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(Note, too, that this page is drawn to what is basically a three tier grid, a la Kirby or Ditko, and has virtually no backgrounds!)
This may be the best argument for storytelling over flash. It is a dynamic piece of art, without the modern detailed backgrounds. Personally, I think too much detail in the background can distort the story. Think about how dynamic those old 60's covers were with little or no background. The colors of the heroes was so vivid and distinct.
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Pierce Askegren Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2005 Posts: 254
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | 11
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My understanding is that bimonthly status was generally a function of sales. In the newsstand environment, magazines stayed on the shelf until the next issue arrived, and sales calculated based on the percentage returned. Sixty days gave a given issue a greater chase to make a profit. Supposedly, the Simon & KIrby SANDMAN revival was viewed as hugely successful (leading to the Fleischer continuation), because its status as a one-shot created the impression that returns had been nil. (The book stayed on the rack until store personnel noticed it was ancient, or until the distributors sent out a recall notice.)
I used to manage a mainsream bookstore and I find this pretty believable. Bar codes, store tracking systems and other tools now make it much easier to track real sales, though -- at least on a statistical basis.
There probably were some books that had fequencies based on talent's capablities, but I'd bet they were few and far between.
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14190
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Posted: 25 July 2006 at 2:46pm | IP Logged | 12
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I touched on this in another thread, but todays artists don't capture what the essence of comic book art should be. It needs to be bold, dynamic, and tell a story without having to read the dialogue. I think there are some good artists in this current new crop of artists. However, some of their work is very static and lacks the action like nature of this medium. Neal Adams while bringing a more realistic style to the medium still captured all the dynamics of comic book storytelling. That is what sets him apart from todays Photoshop artists.
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