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Jay Matthews
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 October 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2468
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | 1
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Dave Farabee wrote:
| Jay, I'm hoping the net effect of all this is that when someone reads a
post from me, they'll subconsciously hear "complete asshole" in their
head directly after. Like a little whispered voice. |
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Must . . . resist . . . though Dave . . . tees it up again . . .
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John Mietus
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 9704
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 8:28pm | IP Logged | 2
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Dave, if it's any consolation, I do.
(I totally see your point on the LOST GIRLS issue, and utterly disagree with it
100%.)
Edited by John Mietus on 02 July 2006 at 8:30pm
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Dave Farabee
Byrne Robotics Member
Quit Forum
Joined: 01 September 2004
Posts: 985
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 8:52pm | IP Logged | 3
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QUOTE:
| ...but can't the other side see how it could be considered a superficially sophisticated excuse to be shocking and perverse as well? |
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Sure, I can see how people would consider that, and I've acknowledged it in some of my past posts - when John Mietus and I were first back-and-forthing over LOST GIRLS, and even in that post I linked to above. It all comes down to how one perceives Moore's past work, and even as someone who rarely finds his work to be "superficial", I recognize he sometimes plays the role of the provocateur. I just see most of his provocations as leading to insight, where a good number of folks here don't think the ends justify the means in his case. Or don't find the ends compelling.
Yeah, I can understand the "other side". With a work like THE KILLING JOKE, I even agree with much of their POV, but I think Moore's body of work is deep enough to have earned him the benefit of the doubt on the subject of intent.
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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10937
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 9:33pm | IP Logged | 4
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This forum has been an absolute pleasure for me in that JB offers up
insight and sneak peeks into his work while weighing in on even the most
controvertial topics. His candor is rare in public figures. While the price
seems to be infinite hassle from yipping mutts, I still think it is well worth
it. His comments on race have created one of the most intelligent back
and forths between a writer and his readers I have seen in a long time.
It's a complicated issue deserving a shake out. Bravo to JB, Glenn Brown,
and all those who raised an intelligent voice in a public forum and a heavy
topic.
It's interesting that this thread has come up as I remember disagreeing
with JB on the use of the "n" word. I was thinking about what I said in the
past two weeks ago when I loaded "Adventures of Huckelberry Finn" on
my iPod - I loved "Adventures fo Tom Sawyer" as a kid, but I heard "Huck
Finn" was more serious (read "boring" to my young mind) and the
phonetic dialogue was a bitch to plow through (Huck narratesd teh book).
So when the book came up in high school English I mostly read the Cliff
Notes and faked my way through the test. I have been reading a lot of
Twain lately and thought this would be a good way to experience the
book.
Well the word used a lot in the book. I'm not saying it, but my car
speakers are projecting it through Los Angeles as I drive. Louder than I
could say it, too. So JB was right about context. And you have my much
belated apology, JB.
And from another thread, Mike O mentioned JB's final convention
appearance in Ohio. I still can't get over how generous JB was to all of us
and how amazingly quick witted he is in conversation. I can turn a good
gag once every eight months, but JB has an amazing rapid fire sense of
humor. I stole a few of his phrases and road tested them, and they killed.
He even showed infinite patience to those like me who found ourselves
star struck. Thanks again JB for one of the most fantatsic, memorable
experiences of my life.
JB, if people said to me just half the shit that you get, I would flip out. I
just want to thank you for hanging in with us at the forum. It really
means a lot to me.
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Joe Mayer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 January 2005
Posts: 1398
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 9:39pm | IP Logged | 5
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Hmmm, after seven pages I guess I have to go with menace. Much like that little toe-headed one of years past, JB is a man who unintentionally gets under the craw of people when all he doesn't really intend to at all. I will say it is unfortunate, but I can't say he doesn't bring a tiny bit on himself. He is a celebrity. Unfortunately, celebrities are held to a different standard than us regular schmoes. If I call someone an asshole or ask someone what they would think if I called them f&*kface, practically nobody would care because I am a nobody. I am a name with a little evil monkey avatar. Even though it is my name, its still meaningless. If I were someone famous, then it would be all over and I would have to put up with everyone responding even though it really is none of their business. Unfortunately the celebrity game has been around a long time though and the rules and expectations are not anything new. The only real options are to either pussyfoot around with every thing said inorder to protect the reputation; say what you think and feel without regard except to your own self which will gain you as much respect as it does villify you; or hide in a closet and let your fingernails grow to three feet long. Personally, I think if the third option would hamper JB's artistic ability. He may be good, but three foot long fingernails would have to get in the way.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10934
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | 6
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Uh-huh
Edited by Mike O'Brien on 03 July 2006 at 1:33am
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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 10:46pm | IP Logged | 7
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Exploring Sexuality is fine. Doing in a comic is fine. But why in the world use the characters from childrens book to do this? That my only question and objection.
So they're digging back to the 70s now. DidJB do a lot of childerns character porn books back then?
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Floyd Kermode
Byrne Robotics Member
Worked Really Hard to Get Banned
Joined: 12 June 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 36
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 11:08pm | IP Logged | 8
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Who is "
that little toe-headed one of years past"? I'm really curious!
Someone said that the options for JB are to "pussyfoot around with every thing said
inorder to protect the reputation" , to say what he thinks, or to just hide out somewhere and grow long fingernails.
Another option would be to say what he thinks without being childish about it, you know, without calling people who disagree with him politely 'assholes' or 'dickweeds' or just closing down threads because the thought of people disagreeing with him is too depressing. He could do that and still say what he thinks.
This excuse of being pushed into abuse by people who just don't understand you is hogwash, it's a bully's reasoning. There are many delightful threads here and JB's art has brought pleasure to many, but this place frequently gives the impression of a forum that is run by a troll.
I came here, not because I hate JB, but to have a look around. I'm off because I know that I will come across more attempts to prove to me that I don't enjoy the work of the talented Mr Moore and childish abuse of others by the guy who runs the place.
cheers
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Jason Fulton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3938
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 11:10pm | IP Logged | 9
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The badge is in the mail, Floyd. Wear it with distinction.
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Mike O'Brien
Byrne Robotics Member
Official JB Historian
Joined: 18 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10934
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| Posted: 02 July 2006 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | 10
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Nope
Edited by Mike O'Brien on 03 July 2006 at 1:33am
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Dave Farabee
Byrne Robotics Member
Quit Forum
Joined: 01 September 2004
Posts: 985
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| Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:21am | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
| Lost Girls is like Madonna's Sex book - you can't really stroke to it... but it exists in the realm of sex... and it's "supposed" to be some sort of thought provoking look at sexual relations... and really, it's just a lame, over-priced non-strokable smut book aimed at hard-core fans. |
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Mike, how do you know this? Do you have an advance copy we don't know about?
QUOTE:
| Does anyone understand how terrible this makes comics look? |
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So terrible that Publishers Weekly called LOST GIRLS "Beautiful, literary and moving." Those smutmeisters!
On the other hand, the prose medium has given us THE 120 DAYS OF SODOM and THE ANARCHIST'S COOKBOOK and THE TURNER DIARIES, and somehow it's managed to keep a reputation. If LOST GIRLS is as dangerous or degrading as those books, I actually have enough faith in human nature to believe it won't flourish.
My guess, of course, is that it's not even remotely close to those works.
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Dave Farabee
Byrne Robotics Member
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Posts: 985
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| Posted: 03 July 2006 at 12:31am | IP Logged | 12
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Mike Norris wrote:
| Exploring Sexuality is fine. Doing in a comic is fine. But why in the world use the characters from childrens book to do this? That my only question and objection. |
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Mike, Moore's been very specfic about why he wanted to use the characters. Essentially, he sees their youthfulness and the surreality of their adventures as a fertile metaphors for the strange way sexuality comes into the lives of many young people. Part one of the interview he did at Newsarama gets into your exact question a few paragraphs down:
http://www.newsarama.com/TopShelf/LostGirls/MooreLG_01.html
And there's a second part that expands upon it:
http://www.newsarama.com/TopShelf/LostGirls/MooreLG_02.html
I get the feeling they're unlikely to change many minds here, but I felt reassured after reading them that Moore had had not gone into the story with debased intent.
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Topic Closed)
