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Matt Linton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 December 2005
Posts: 2022
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 10:52am | IP Logged | 1
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Sorry Rene and Matt. I read that wrong at least three times before responding.
JB: I think it would definitely change the concept, but I think if someone owns and creates the book, then hires someone to write it (and presumably allows them to change the core concept) it would be the same as if the creator changed it themselves, and therefore not a violation.
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Kevin Pierce
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2010
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 10:58am | IP Logged | 2
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So was the pre Moore/Gaiman MarvelMan personality more closely related to his US counterpart Captain Marvel, or the 70's boycott Superman?
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Phil Southern
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 206
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 3
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I really enjoyed some of Alan Moore's work. V for Vendetta I found to be original, From Hell was enjoyable and unique, for comics at the time, and enjoyed Watchmen when first serialized. However, I began to have a nagging dislike for the work when I saw that he wasn't bringing anything new to the table.
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was dark 19th century adventure lit.
Watchmen was dark Charlton.
Miracleman was dark Captain Marvel/Marvelman.
Even Top Ten's most lauded issue riffed on an episode of Homicide.
I have not read most of the ABC line nor Swamp Thing, so I can't comment on those.
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Paul Lloyd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: Wales
Posts: 486
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 12:52pm | IP Logged | 4
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It's a shame, then, to see characters like this fall into the hands of the deconstructionists -- especially someone like Moore, who seems to really have no story to tell beyond "everything you know is a lie".
***
I thought the "everything is a lie" conceit worked terrifically, within the context of Moore's first Marvelman story arc. I think it's best to think of it as a science fiction (rather than a superhero) comic.
I disagree when John says that Moore has no other story to tell. Sure, it's a common theme in much of his work - from "Watchmen" to "From Hell" - but what about "Tom Strong" or "Top Ten" or, uhm, "D.R. and Quinch"?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134185
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 5
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All right, let's take TOM STRONG, just as a f'rinstance. This is a 40s style action hero much in the same mode as Doc Savage. Yet, as seen so many times before, this is Moore doing "nostalgia" with things about which he clearly does not feel nostalgic. And he can't help himself, can he? He has to pull the reader out of the mood. Not having looking at any TOM STRONG stuff for a while, I set aside the trade paperback that came in one of my DC bundles a while back. Took a couple of months to get around to looking at it, but when I flipped thru, what did I find? Naked sex scenes. Not full out naked. Not full out sex. But also not the kind of thing you'd expect from the pulp fiction that was supposed to be the inspiration for this character and series.So it becomes the "adult" version of stuff that was never supposed to be "adult" in the first place -- and in the end, what is that but a variation on "everything you know is a lie"? By all means -- if you like Moore's stuff, read it, enjoy it, recommend it to your friends. But don't pretend it's something it's not.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | 6
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Doc Savage is kind of like Superman, except that instead of being born
superhuman he had to train up that way with "science". Makes sense that
Moore couldn't help himself wanting to show everyone "how the story really went" with Doc
Savage.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 09 June 2006 at 1:52pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134185
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 1:55pm | IP Logged | 7
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Doc Savage is kind of like Superman...*** Seigel and Shuster mined certain elements from Doc Savage -- the Fortress of Solitude, for instance, and some have drawn parallels to Clark Savage Jr. being created by Lester Dent -- but saying Doc Savage is like Superman (even modifying with "kind of) pushes the point a bit. Of DC characters created around the same time as Savage, Batman probably comes closer to the model.
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Juan Jose Colin Arciniega
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6413
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 2:10pm | IP Logged | 8
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John Byrne: ..as seen so many times before, this is Moore doing "nostalgia" with things about which he clearly does not feel nostalgic.
--------------------------------------
At last i read a phrase that examplifies Alan Moore!...I have never thought about him like that...until now!....and you are right....Thanks Mr. Byrne!
Edited by Juan Jose Colin Arciniega on 09 June 2006 at 2:11pm
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Phil Southern
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 206
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 9
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He seems like the friend everybody has who could find fault with free sex! It's what we call looking at the world through shit colored glasses.
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Rey Madrinan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 865
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 10
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"Yet, as seen so many times before, this is Moore doing "nostalgia" with things about which he clearly does not feel nostalgic"
I remeber catching this feeling with him in "Whatever happened to the man of tommrow?" when it said "This is an imaginary story, aren't they all?"
Way to miss the friggin' point, smarta**.
*grumble*
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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 11
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Mig Da Silva Posted: 09 June 2006 at 7:02am
QUOTE:
You haven't read WATCHMEN, and you're here entering a discussion on Alan Moore...
...apologies, i just passed out momentarily. Where am i again? . |
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You know if you read the posts in order they make more sense. Try it some time.
Gene Kendall Posted: 09 June at 5:48am
QUOTE:
| Moore's runs on Captain Britain and WildC.A.T.S. also pulled the "lie" trick. |
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QUOTE:
| (I haven't read those either by the way. Are they good?) |
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Glenn Moane Posted: 09 June 2006 at 6:06 am
QUOTE:
Oki, Mister Byrne, I have read the following works of Alan Moore:
Swamp Thing (entire run)
League of Extraordinary Gentlemen
Watchmen <-------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------
Top Ten
Tom Strong
V for Vendetta
From Hell
Various Future Shock tales
Promethea
Smax the Barbarian
Whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow?
Albion
Big Numbers
The Ballad of Halo Jones
Batman the Killing Joke |
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Funny how thats works out.
Edited by Mike Norris on 09 June 2006 at 2:32pm
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Dave Phelps
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4188
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| Posted: 09 June 2006 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | 12
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QUOTE:
| Even Top Ten's most lauded issue riffed on an episode of Homicide. |
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And of course the climax of the series had a group of JLA analogues as child molestors...
Edited by Dave Phelps on 10 June 2006 at 12:07pm
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