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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36087
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Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:57pm | IP Logged | 1
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One story by Ennis does not exclude a long history of interviews saying he hates superheroes, nor his use of Spider-Man in his first PUNISHER run as a punching bag to express just that. Childish, rude, insulting...and someone that shouldn't be writing the genre if they hate it that much.
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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7526
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Posted: 12 April 2006 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 2
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It's probably something that should be added to the Don't list:
- Don't beat up someone else's hero to prove how tough your hero is.
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Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10182
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Posted: 12 April 2006 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 3
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It is even worse though. He wanted to show how wimpy Spider-man and Wolverine are. It wasn't just "Wow the Punisher is so tough" but these heroes suck.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36087
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Posted: 12 April 2006 at 2:06pm | IP Logged | 4
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Exactly.
And wasn't there some sort of childish retaliation by the Wolverine creative team against the Punisher? Talk about idiotic.
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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7526
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Posted: 12 April 2006 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 5
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That's... just plain depressing. Worse, apparently M-word's editorial went along with it.
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Jason Fulton Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3938
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Posted: 12 April 2006 at 2:13pm | IP Logged | 6
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You can't expect these writers to make a living based solely on the quality of their writing - what would they do without the 'I hate superheroes, and you should to' gimick?
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Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10182
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Posted: 12 April 2006 at 2:18pm | IP Logged | 7
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Yeah, Wolverine beat the heck out of him, really bad, and even make a joke that the Punisher was gay-something along the lines of "Frank, why do you always read so many muscle magazines. The other heroes are talking" to which Punisher was like "Um uh that's not- um."
They both tried the to make the other look totally foolish. I think Wolverine said Canucklehead like 30 times in Ennis's two issues, like a caricature of itself. And when they were beat, they were beat bad. It was almost like a Tom and Jerry cartoon-or more like Itchy and Scratchy
"Garth had his fun with Wolverine in the pages of PUNISHER. Frank [Tieri] wanted payback," explained WOLVERINE editor Axel Alonso. "Don't worry, it's all in good fun . . . I think."
Edited by Rob Hewitt on 12 April 2006 at 2:21pm
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Thomas Mets Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 September 2004 Location: United States Posts: 898
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Posted: 12 April 2006 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | 8
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Riiiiiiiiight. This is the same Garth Ennis who had Punisher use
Spider-Man as a punching bag, having "his" character wipe the floor
with a superhero as an expression of his dislike of mainstream
superheroes. Read to me like he hates them, even though he's oft
written them for what can only be a paycheck.
*******************************************************
Three notes about Ennis, and Marvel Superheroes.
1. He wrote a decent three parter for Tangled Web, and captured Peter's
high school years/ relationship with Aunt May pretty damn well.
2. His Punisher/ Spider-Man "team-up" worked (in my opinion) as an example of Spider-Man having a really really bad day.
3. The first issue of his Ghost Rider mini series broke the Top Ten, so there is significant interest in his superhero work.
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Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10182
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Posted: 12 April 2006 at 2:28pm | IP Logged | 9
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I would say he should stick to, at best, characters like Ghost Rider or Punisher.
The Ghost Rider art was pretty nice and unique looking, I didn't pick it up, but that could be part of the reason it sold so well
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Edited by Rob Hewitt on 12 April 2006 at 2:28pm
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Jason Fulton Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3938
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Posted: 12 April 2006 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 10
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Oh, I didn't know it sold a bunch of copies. It must have been a terrific story. The real question - was it 'brill on toast' terrific, or merely 'a crackin good yarn'?
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36087
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Posted: 12 April 2006 at 2:35pm | IP Logged | 11
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Thomas Mets wrote:
Three notes about Ennis, and Marvel Superheroes. 1. He wrote a decent three parter for Tangled Web, and captured Peter's high school years/ relationship with Aunt May pretty damn well. 2. His Punisher/ Spider-Man "team-up" worked (in my opinion) as an example of Spider-Man having a really really bad day. 3. The first issue of his Ghost Rider mini series broke the Top Ten, so there is significant interest in his superhero work. |
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First of all, sales don't equal quality nor respect for the genre. I don't give two shits if sales for X superhero title are through the roof if creator Y treats said character like dirt. Your constant references to "top 10" this and "sales numbers" that impress me not one whit nor does it go a long way to having any sort of opinion of your own.
The treatment of Spider-Man by Ennis in Punisher didn't work at all. Not one bit. Spider-Man's had a ton of "bad days" in his lengthy publishing career. Hell, that's who Spider-Man/Peter Parker is. No, it didn't work as a "bad day" story because Ennis wrote Spider-Man so totally out-of-character only so he could show everyone that he hates mainstream superheroes. Hates them. He's said as much in interview after interview. Any writer that uses a character to express his own personal opinion about said character, especially at the expense of the character, shouldn't be writing them. Period.
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Jacob P Secrest Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 October 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4068
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Posted: 12 April 2006 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 12
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I have a friend who swears by Garth Ennis, I've never read his stuff, so I
can't judge, but for the most part I trust this guys opinion (other than his
bizarre dislike of Alan Moore).
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