| Author |
|
John Webb
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 October 2004
Posts: 1428
|
| Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
Sorry chief. I think I have a habit of trying to see both sides of the coin and it sometimes leaves me in a less than satisfactory spot.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Christopher Arndt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 278
|
| Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
QUOTE:
(5) You think the characters should serve your stories, not the other way 'round.
I think this is forgivable once in a while. Some people like Chuck Dixon did start to make a habit of it though. |
|
|
I'd like an example of that. I've read many an example of that and I think his only two egregious errors with the Dark Knight were going with the "Batman is the real Bruce Wayne is the disguise" thing that every writer at the time was doing to some extent from 1993 to 2005. The second error was his his strange retcon that Joe Chill was not his parents' killer and Batman will never find the character. That idea has basically been used only in comic books from Zero Hour to now.
CJA
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Francesco Vanagolli
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005
Location: Italy
Posts: 3130
|
| Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:20pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
Sometimes the secret identity can be as interesting as the superhero... Peter Parker, Tony Stark, Clark Kent and others are great characters, even if they aren't wearing their costumes.
I agree especially with #10: during the Quemas age, I often felt like I was reading comics produced for (and by) who is ashamed to read superheroes...
Just imagine the scene:
- Comic: Hey, reader! Look at me!
- Reader: A comic book? I don't read superheroes, I'm a mature guy! Superheroes are for stupid kids!
- C: Nope, I'm a comic from New Marvel, made for you by authors like you! Don't you see? I contain part 1 of a 12000 parter story with no big words in the cover, no clashes among super beings, no final cliffanger, no costumes! I'm so cool!
- R: wow, at last a comic book with no those stupid things anymore! I don't care for the characters, but I'll buy you because you're so mature!
- C: thank you reader, I'm sure we will be friends! And now, let's laugh about continuity and respect for the characters! Only fans care for that!
Sigh...
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Webb
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 October 2004
Posts: 1428
|
| Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:22pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
I'd like an example of that. I've read many an example of that and I think his only two egregious errors with the Dark Knight were going with the "Batman is the real Bruce Wayne is the disguise" thing that every writer at the time was doing to some extent from 1993 to 2005. The second error was his his strange retcon that Joe Chill was not his parents' killer and Batman will never find the character. That idea has basically been used only in comic books from Zero Hour to now.
CJA
Thats not really what I meant by that. It is more a general feeling that some characters writen by Chuck (who could tell a good story) were not acting in a way that I was used to.
Edited by John Webb on 12 April 2006 at 1:22pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Christopher Arndt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 278
|
| Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:34pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
QUOTE:
| Thats not really what I meant by that. It is more a general feeling
that some characters writen by Chuck (who could tell a good story) were
not acting in a way that I was used to. |
|
|
Heck, I'd like an example of that. His Robin character was only written by two or three guys before him and not any of those runs were very long.
HIs Nightwing was a succession from Denny O'Neil (Nightwing: Alfred's Return) and Marv Wolfman and I think sudden changeovers of behavior in that character could also be chalked up to the changeover from being a Titans character to a Batman Family character.
But those are only things rattling around in my mind. What got changed for story? How many is required to become a tendency?
CJA
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
John Webb
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 October 2004
Posts: 1428
|
| Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
I surrender.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Gregory Dickens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 May 2004
Posts: 291
|
| Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:38pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
I have to admit I now suspect any writer who moves over from movies or
TV. I had an open mind originally, but Smith's Daredevil and JMS'
Spider-Man have soured me.
I've often groused to my wife about "reading a story that happens to have Spider-Man in it instead of a Spider-Man story."
I blame the editors for letting them get away with it. I don't expect
someone new to the medium to understand continuity or the financial or
emotional investment readers have made to the characters. But I expect
their editor to guide them through the initial stories and not reboot
the properties.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Christopher Arndt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 278
|
| Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
QUOTE:
|
I blame the editors for letting (JMS) get away with it. |
|
|
That's unfair. Blame the lawyers. Part of JMS' contract stipulates that the editorial control over his Spider-Man writing be somewhere between zero and minimal.
So essentially JMS has no editors. So there is no one to let him get away with anything as there is no one to reign him in.
Kevin Smith.... really needed an editor. Heck, he needed a co-writer.
The major problem with the "Mysterio is dead" thing wasn't even that Kevin Smith took so many liberties and killed so many characters, especially one that was not a Daredevil character... but that the response from the Spider-Man writing and editorial team was to treat Kevin Smith's work as canonical as if he was a Biblical prophet. When a master of illusion eats a gun when he is essentiall performing, then the last thing one should assume is that the death is real.
So no... Mysterio didn't die in Daredevil and was alive in Spider-Man... until the Spider-Man writing and editorial team confused the issue anad put out "The Mysterio Manifesto".
and killing DD's long-time love interest like Smith did was both hacky and tacky.
CJA
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36087
|
| Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:47pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
Thomas Mets wrote:
| The strange thing about #10 is that there have been some good superhero stories by people who hate the medium. The best examples that come to mind are Garth Ennis's Hitman issue guest-starring Superman... |
|
|
Riiiiiiiiight. This is the same Garth Ennis who had Punisher use Spider-Man as a punching bag, having "his" character wipe the floor with a superhero as an expression of his dislike of mainstream superheroes. Read to me like he hates them, even though he's oft written them for what can only be a paycheck.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Rob Hewitt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10182
|
| Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:51pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Oh, Ennis the Punisher guy. When he said that, I thought he meant Ellis (Gah-Lak-Tus).
He also treated Wolverine pretty badly too. Now he is in Max so no superheroes. Only Punisher killing.
Must study more about these creators so I know what I am talking about
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Rob Hewitt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10182
|
| Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
So essentially JMS has no editors. So there is no one to let him get away with anything as there is no one to reign him in.
***
They did stop him from having the Goblin/Gwen kids be the Peter/Gwen kids. Or at least, convinced him.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
|
| Posted: 12 April 2006 at 1:53pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
That particular Ennis story is surprisingly good. He doesn't use Superman as a punching bag.
[Gee, my 1000th post. I'm beginning to understand why my dissertation isn't finished.]
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Topic Closed)
