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Topic: Ten Reasons You Shouldn’t Be WRITING Superheroes (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Matt Reed
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Robotmod

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Posted: 13 April 2006 at 9:57am | IP Logged | 1  

To me, saying "Hawkman frowning" is like saying "Joker smiling." Hawkman wears a permanent frown!  It would be something else entirely to write "Hawkman smiles."  No there's something you don't see every day.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 13 April 2006 at 9:59am | IP Logged | 2  

...his mouth and jaw are visible.

***

Much more than the mouth and jaw are involved in a frown, as I am sure you would realize if you were not determined to contradict. A downturned mouth can indicate a frown -- or just sadness. Or petulance. Or grim resolve. Or maybe our hero just smelled something bad.

Buy a clue.

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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 13 April 2006 at 10:01am | IP Logged | 3  

From before the 1st movie came out, i think early on in JMS's Spider-man run, comments by John Romita Jr (who like I said has not had anything but praise for JMS's run, whatever we think of it, just thought they were relevant):



ROMITA, Jr.: And I struggle with expression. I'm working on a page right now with J. Michael Straczynski [where he's] asked for Peter Parker to grin underneath Spider-Man's mask. Spider-Man's grinning at a moment, and that's not easy to do with a mask on. That is a frustrating thing, not being able to show expression. And the webbings can be tedious, yes.

JOZIC: I've actually noticed that over the last four or five issues you have kind of tried to put a little more detail into the shape of Peter's head when he's wearing the mask. Showing the features of his face a little more.

ROMITA, Jr.: He has had the snot beaten out of him, so his head's all misshapen.

JOZIC: [laughs]

ROMITA, Jr.: Yeah, there have been specific moments where the writer…I'm sorry, Mr. Straczynski. I should call him J. Michael…Joseph…JMS has asked specifically in panels for a reaction, a close-up, shot with a smile underneath, or rage underneath the mask. So, with those kinds of specific requests you have to try your best to exaggerate the lumps in the mask, so to speak. But there's only so much you can convey, so that is a frustrating request.

JOZIC: So, that is unique to the writer. That isn't you developing the look of Spidey further…

ROMITA, Jr.: I've been asked before, but I think that everybody else has understood that it's almost impossible to show that kind of expression. He hasn't said these words to me, but I'm sure he's thought this, "I understand it's difficult, but specifically, let's give it our best shot." So, it's my job to exaggerate a touch. It's not an impossible request, and it's not an unreasonable request, but it was perfect to the moment and I have no problem with it. You just have to suspend a little reality and say, "Well, since his cheekbones are sticking out a little bit, maybe he's grinning under there." The context and the dialogue also help out.

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/features/9987596102362 6,print.htm

 

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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 13 April 2006 at 10:02am | IP Logged | 4  

Hawkman always seems like he is grumpy and unhappy-man, doesn't he realize happy people live longer?
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Bill Lukash
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Posted: 13 April 2006 at 10:04am | IP Logged | 5  

Just like a smile (without seeing the eyes) could be pain, rage, etc...

Hell, Liefelds guys are always smiling...sometimes 'evily' sometimes 'nicely'
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Jason Fulton
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Posted: 13 April 2006 at 10:04am | IP Logged | 6  

Must be all that reincarnation.

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Todd Douglas
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Posted: 13 April 2006 at 10:06am | IP Logged | 7  


 QUOTE:
Much more than the mouth and jaw are involved in a frown, as I am sure you would realize if you were not determined to contradict. A downturned mouth can indicate a frown -- or just sadness. Or maybe our hero just smelled something bad.

Who's "determined to contradict?"  I simply don't see the problem in showing a frown (a facial expression, as differentiated from an emotional state like sadness) in the current mask.  It seems you're suggesting that, without the context of the entire face a "frown" can't be discerned, and, by extension, the frown's genesis (sadness, smelling something bad, etc.) cannot be determined.  By that same token, though, wouldn't the context of the scene in the story help fill us in on that?

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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 13 April 2006 at 10:18am | IP Logged | 8  

The only time recently I was confused by art was by Black Bolt in New Avengers: Illuminati.

Basically, near the end, everyone is given Iron Man their opinion. Black Bolt (who can't speak w/o consquences) is shown in two panels. No captions.

He moves his hand from panel to panel. You can tell that.  But I can't tell WHAT he means.  He did walk away, so I can infer, but it was frustrating in what was supposed to be a dramatic moment.

That's where a caption could have come in useful.

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Matt Reed
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Posted: 13 April 2006 at 10:20am | IP Logged | 9  

Don't you remember?  Captions became extinct at Marvel with "The Great Purge" of 1998.  Deemed "unkewl" and "too comic-booky" they were done away with in favor of more "realistic" art and storytelling techniques.
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Jason Fulton
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Posted: 13 April 2006 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 10  

http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=df7083eb22d 5185c94f7706dfb4c8cdd&threadid=66106

Q: I may be a bit thick, but it wasn't clear to me if Black Bolt was supportive of Iron Man's position at the end of the issue. I'll assume yes, since he didn't fly off in a huff. But why would he support the voluntary registration. Like Namor, Black Bolt is the leader of a sovereign nation, not a superhero. Why would he care about something that will only be impacting America in the short term.

BB
: Here is the script to that scene:

4- Doctor Strange gently casts a spell. He is disappearing into a strobe light effect of magics. He does it calmly. With a very sad look on his face.

DOCTOR STRANGE
I guess we're done here.

Never call upon me again.
5- Smoke still billowing from where Doctor Strange was sitting, Iron-Man asks Blackbolt even though he's pretty sure he knows the answer.

IRON-MAN
Well.

I'm sorry you can't communicate with us, Black Bolt. I -
6- Black Bolt holds up a stern hand with stern pursed lips.
7- Black Bolt gestures at him through with pursed lips.
8- Black Bolt points at them with disappointed, hateful eyes.
9- From Behind Reed Richards, Black Bolt flies away. Iron Man hangs his head as Reed gets up to leave.

IRON-MAN
I think I got the gist.
REED RICHARDS:

Well, I have to go home and fight with my wife about this for the rest of my life.

 

 

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Jason Fulton
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Posted: 13 April 2006 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 11  

Kudos to BMB for some spot-on characterization and dialogue.
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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 13 April 2006 at 10:29am | IP Logged | 12  

Captions became extinct at Marvel with "The Great Purge" of 1998.  Deemed "unkewl" and "too comic-booky" they were done away with in favor of more "realistic" art and storytelling techniques.

***

I can understand modern techniques. Dialoque and other things change over time.  60s comics don't read the same as 80s. At the same time, "old school" techniques shouldn't be forgotten, especially when they serve a purpose. I wish they had remembered that, because this was not a case where a caption was telling you what was already viewable in the scene, an old style which i can understand eliminating. But heck, I like thought balloons too.

BTW thanks Jason

I'll assume yes, since he didn't fly off in a huff.   And I assumed the exact opposite. It appears I was right



Edited by Rob Hewitt on 13 April 2006 at 10:36am
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