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Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 May 11 Location: United States Posts: 10182
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Posted: 2006 January 15 at 10:35am | IP Logged | 1
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They gave a bad review to Hobgoblin Lives
***
He refused to let go of Ned Leeds being the Hobgoblin, despite the guy who created the freaking character saying otherwise.
****
It was a good story, but truthfully, for me it was too long after the fact to fix the problem. Plus, the guy he turned out to be hadn't even been seen in 15 years, or referred to. Pretty much a let down. and with Norman Osborn back, the Hobgoblin is superfluous. and it made little sense to me that Norman would let this guy run around as the Goblin.
Pretty much, a story I felt just didn't need to be told, and should have been allowed to die.
As for "creator" intent, well, again, rereading the original Goblin issues there is exactly one small hint that it is who it was.
and that was not followed up on by DeFalco at all.
and the evil twin thing is a cheat and cliche to me,
Edited by Rob Hewitt on 2006 January 15 at 10:37am
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Jacob P Secrest Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 October 18 Location: United States Posts: 4068
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Posted: 2006 January 15 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 2
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James C. Taylor wrote:
To Jacob Secrest: Thank you for the correction. As I am interested in the
current version of Spider-Man only as one is interested in a three car pile
up on the interstate, I was unaware of the specifics of eyeball eating. |
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I'm much the same way, I just remember Linda posting a scanned page
from that issue over on IMWAN.
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Gene Best Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2005 October 24 Location: United States Posts: 4598
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Posted: 2006 January 15 at 11:05am | IP Logged | 3
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I have to concur with Rob. "Hobgoblin Lives" was one of the biggest blue-balls letdowns ever - especially since it had a masterfully-crafted multi-year build up.
I didn't even remember the guy Hobby turned out to be - it might as well have been some gaffer from PBS's The Electric Company via a tenuous connection with Spidey Super Stories.
In fact, now that I think about it, it should have been Easy Reader ... then, bring in Morgan Freeman for the movie, natch.
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Roger A Ott II Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 April 29 Location: United States Posts: 5371
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Posted: 2006 January 15 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 4
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Rob Hewitt: It was a good story, but truthfully, for me it was too long after the fact to fix the problem. Plus, the guy he turned out to be hadn't even been seen in 15 years, or referred to. Pretty much a let down. and with Norman Osborn back, the Hobgoblin is superfluous. and it made little sense to me that Norman would let this guy run around as the Goblin.
Norman didn't. There was an excellent follow-up story by Roger Stern and Glenn Greenberg that tied up the loose ends very well. I don't want to post any spoilers, so just go read SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN #259-261, "Gobins at the Gate!" Great stuff!
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Roger A Ott II Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 April 29 Location: United States Posts: 5371
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Posted: 2006 January 15 at 11:26am | IP Logged | 5
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Gene Best: "Hobgoblin Lives" was one of the biggest blue-balls letdowns ever - especially since it had a masterfully-crafted multi-year build up.
Masterfully-crafted? Yeah, up until DeFalco and Frenz left AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. A letdown? Compared to what? The ending of the Hobgoblin saga in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #289 had me, (to quote Ron White) spinning into a dimension of pissed-off I have never been before in my life. What an utter and total piss-poor way to end a terrific character. Ned Leeds' death was shown in a flashback to a book that wasn't even available on the spinner rack of the store where I bought my comics at the time. So, I came into that issue with a big ol' "WTF??!!!"
That Roger Stern was able to come back and make something worthwhile out of the shit that happened over the intervening years is testament to his unparalleled ability as a writer.
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Thanos Kollias Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 June 19 Location: Greece Posts: 5009
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Posted: 2006 January 15 at 4:46pm | IP Logged | 6
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Also, it corrected the mistake of turning a character like Ned Leeds into a criminal, as well as the stupidity that he was killed by simple guys, off panel, for crying out loud!
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Lance Hill Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2005 April 22 Posts: 991
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Posted: 2006 January 15 at 5:25pm | IP Logged | 7
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DeFalco and Frenz will be using the original Hobgoblin in Spider-Girl, his first appearance since Goblins at the Gate.
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Thomas Mets Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 September 05 Location: United States Posts: 898
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Posted: 2006 January 15 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 8
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If Marvel ever does a Spider-Man Visionaries: Roger Stern series it
would be a good idea for them to end it with a collection that includes
Goblins at the Gate, and The Hobgoblin Lives (an out of print $12.95
collection of the historic 3 parter isn't enough.)
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Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 May 11 Location: United States Posts: 10182
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Posted: 2006 January 15 at 7:09pm | IP Logged | 9
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Also, it corrected the mistake of turning a character like Ned Leeds into a criminal, as well as the stupidity that he was killed by simple guys, off panel, for crying out loud!
***
and he yelled "Spider-man help me." or something
Pretty much though for a long time it could only really have been Ned or whatshis name the other guy Peter was in competition with.
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Roger A Ott II Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 April 29 Location: United States Posts: 5371
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Posted: 2006 January 15 at 7:16pm | IP Logged | 10
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Thomas Mets: If Marvel ever does a Spider-Man Visionaries: Roger Stern series it would be a good idea for them to end it with a collection that includes Goblins at the Gate, and The Hobgoblin Lives (an out of print $12.95 collection of the historic 3 parter isn't enough.)
I'll take that even further, Thomas. I wish they'd put out a Hobgoblin trade paperback (or two even!) that covered the original character (couldn't care less about the Macendale Hobgoblin) completely. Every appearance from Kingsley's first in SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN, all the way through to "Goblins at the Gate." That way I wouldn't have to pull out so many different comics to read the entire story.
Edited by Roger A Ott II on 2006 January 15 at 7:18pm
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Gregg Allinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 April 16 Location: United States Posts: 4252
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Posted: 2006 January 15 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | 11
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I didn't even remember the guy Hobby turned out to be - it might as well have been some gaffer from PBS's The Electric Company via a tenuous connection with Spidey Super Stories.
Missing the point. In all fairness, I felt the same way at first, but when you really go back to the original Hobgoblin stories, Kingsley is definitely part of the fabric and a perfectly logical choice. The problem, obviously, is that so many years passed before Rog got the chance to tell the story he originally wanted to tell. Had Hobgoblin Lives been released in 1986, it would've been a fantastic resolution.
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Thomas Mets Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 2004 September 05 Location: United States Posts: 898
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Posted: 2006 January 15 at 10:13pm | IP Logged | 12
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I'll take that even further, Thomas. I wish they'd put out a Hobgoblin
trade paperback (or two even!) that covered the original character
(couldn't care less about the Macendale Hobgoblin) completely. Every
appearance from Kingsley's first in SPECTACULAR SPIDER-MAN, all the way
through to "Goblins at the Gate." That way I wouldn't have to pull out
so many different comics to read the entire story.
********************************************************** ******************
2 problems.
1. It would involve a series of trades.
2. It would conflict with other books that should be made into TPB
form, such as Stern's Amazing Spider-Man Visionaries, followed by a
Visionaries run of his Spectacular run (I'd do his Amazing run first
because those are the better regarded tales.)
However, it would be sensible to release a trade of the Hobgoblin
stories that would not be released in other trade paperbacks. I'm sure
a few can be found.
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