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Victor Rodgers
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Posted: 13 January 2006 at 2:46am | IP Logged | 1  

Many of the things invented by the big brains of the Marvel universe are simply too dangerous for the public. Can you imagine what kind of havoc would break out if the public got ahold of Pym particles?
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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 13 January 2006 at 3:17am | IP Logged | 2  

Good points from Brett on later reinterpretations of Iron Man
mucking around with his roots. I've been playing Devil's
Advocate a bit here to see what it is that people really liked
about the character, and there've been some pretty good
answers for the most part.

The fact that Stark went to Vietnam (or Korea, or Iraq, or
wherever his current origin is supposed to take place) in the
first place to get a firsthand look at how his weaponry was
being used shows that he wasn't a total bastard, but I still see
him as a bit of a profiteer in his pre-Iron Man days.

***

As for Pym Particles and Reed Richards's discoveries not
becoming commonplace in the Marvel Universe, I'd have to
agree with Victor's observation. Unstable molecules in the
hands of evildoers are going to cause trouble, same as
shrinking/growth technology, time travel, and other dangerous
inventions. Stark's developments were in the medical field, and
would only be beneficial to humanity. If Stark recovered from
cancer through some super-expensive miracle treatment that
only he could afford and didn't make much of an effort to bring
that technology to the public, I'd probably think less of the
character, and his paralysis was somewhat comparable.

Better for his wheelchair to be powered by some rare
radioactive element or a gift of some alien race or something
than for it to just be too expensive to try and mass produce. If
the creative team hadn't addressed the wheelchair issue the
way they did, I wouldn't have given it a second thought, but they
opened up a can of worms with the $2.7 million thing...

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Emery Calame
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Posted: 13 January 2006 at 3:40am | IP Logged | 3  

Tony Stark has become the Hal Jordan of the ^^***** universe. Only he did it some of it sooner than Hal did. Of course he didn't assume a stupid name like Modulus and set out to blow up the universe for its own good. Yet.

He did betray the Avengers though and fought a teenage version of himself from an alternate universe. Or has that wonderful story finally circled the bowl twice and disappeared?



Edited by Emery Calame on 13 January 2006 at 3:43am
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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 13 January 2006 at 6:49am | IP Logged | 4  

Andrew W. Farago: since then, one creative team after another has written Iron Man as a manipulative jerk whose philosophy is "the ends justify the means."

On this, I can agree with you 100%.  There have been a few instances since issue #250 where Tony Stark was written well, but as time goes on, they're stretching further and further apart.

Check out Kurt Busiek's IRON MAN: THE IRON AGE two-part story if you haven't already.  It does a very nice job of showing how much of an ass Tony Stark was prior to the trip to Southeast Asia, and how much he changed when he came back.

Andrew W. Farago: For the cost of one Iron Man suit, he could probably have given fifty people hoverchairs, and I'm sure he could have brought the costs down if he'd put any effort into it.

And maybe he did, and we just didn't see it.  There was a creative team shuffle going on right about this time, so I'm not surprised it never got mentioned again.  But, that doesn't mean he wasn't concerned about it or that he never did something generous like that.  Tony Stark still goes to AA meetings, but we haven't seen that in the book in a very long time, either.

And if we're going to pick on Tony Stark for not giving them away, why not lambaste Charles Xavier, too?  He's had many high-tech wheelchairs over the course of his history, and I've not seen one instance of him offering them to the general public.  Should we hang good ol' Professor X out to dry for not having the Shi'ar clone every handicapped person on Earth a new working body like they did for him back in the early 80's?  At least Tony Stark tried to help people in many different ways by starting a prosthetic research facility.

All I'm trying to get at is that Tony Stark isn't a jerk.  Not when he's written like he's supposed to be.  Sure, there are instances when he's put into a situation where he has to make decisions that others might not like, but that's something many other heroes have had to do on occasion as well.  Even Spider-Man (to bring it full circle).

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Roger A Ott II
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Posted: 13 January 2006 at 6:51am | IP Logged | 5  

Emery Calame: He did betray the Avengers though and fought a teenage version of himself from an alternate universe. Or has that wonderful story finally circled the bowl twice and disappeared?

Well, in my mind it had until you just mentioned it.  Thanks a ton, Emery!

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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 13 January 2006 at 7:37am | IP Logged | 6  

I think if we are going to wonder why Tony did not give away high-tec wheelchairs, then we got to start wondering about why they aren't  curing cancer, making barren lands fertile, why Thor doesn't appear every time there is a drought, etc. etc.

We have to conceded some things for the whole genre to survive, don't we? 

There are instances where he has been written, wrongly, as a jerk.  But if we are going to include "Why didn;t he make the Iron Man chestplate available to everyone who had a heart condition" or "Invent suits that would enable all people to walk" aren't we a little lost?

edited-Matt handled it better than me I think. Missed his post

Heck Reed Richards mind alone would have come up with all sorts of things.



Edited by Rob Hewitt on 13 January 2006 at 7:39am
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Emery Calame
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Posted: 13 January 2006 at 7:53am | IP Logged | 7  

Hover wheel chairs sounds like a lawsuit wating to happen to me. Just because it works okay for M.O.D.O.K. and the cartoon version of Professor X doesn't mean that they are for everybody.

Edited by Emery Calame on 13 January 2006 at 8:54am
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Mike Sawin
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Posted: 13 January 2006 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 8  

As far as Tony Stark ad the rest of the Marvel sci-guys inventing things to make the world a better place ...

There was a time when a writer could just do a throw-away scene like Tony hanging out at some event where Stark International was giving away high-tech wheelchairs or money for the homeless or some other such thing. Then he's called away to fight The Procupine or The Mandarin. It wouldn't be a Big Deal, either; the charity stuff would just be there, because Tony Stark (and Reed Richards, and Hank Pym and the rest) were good guys.  Not just super-heroes, but really good guys.

I haven't read Iron Man in ages, but the guy I used to read about would be the type of character who would do that (and did on occasion).  That doesn't mean these guys were without flaw, but it does mean that they were heroic in costume and out.

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John Price
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Posted: 13 January 2006 at 7:55am | IP Logged | 9  

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Brian Miller
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Posted: 13 January 2006 at 8:26am | IP Logged | 10  

John, where'd you get those cool avatars? Awesome!
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John Price
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Posted: 13 January 2006 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 11  

I used to own the Marvel Megasite so I have loads of animated avatars in my photobucket. DC one's to as I also used to own the Justice League Watchtower fansite.
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Joe Mayer
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Posted: 13 January 2006 at 8:35am | IP Logged | 12  

Me: Yes, it is a stunt, but they go with the territory.

Matt:  So you're saying we really have no place to complain?  We should basically just shut up and deal, huh?

*****

Me:  Care to tell me who in fandom knew it was a two issue gag at that time before the Internet?

JB:  No one knew. But more importantly, no one wanted to know. We were simply content to be swept along by whatever the folk at Marvel (and DC) threw out for our entertainment. We were not so riddled with ennui that we greeted each new development with a feigned yawn and a moan of Well, we know this isn't going to last!
*****

I am not trying to suggest we shouldn’t complain.  Heck, I will champion people rights to bitch for the rest of my life.  But I guess I still love being swept along by the things thrown out for my entertainment and look forward to seeing where it goes.  This new outfit could last for two months it could last for six or a year or several.  We don’t know.  Yet, so many people complain because of one picture or a preview page for solicitation without even reading the story.  It sometimes feels like a majority of the people who complain haven’t even been reading Spider-Man for years. 

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