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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31161
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Posted: 03 January 2006 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | 1
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Found this quote on another board:
"What does annoy me is why Quesada thinks that having T'Challa & Ororo married is fine but that same institution somehow ruins Peter Parker."
He is referencing a Newsarama Q & A with Quesada in which he said this:
"With respect to the character and their integrity, these are two characters that I don't think are harmed by marriage. There are some like Spider-Man that I believe do get harmed on a STORY LEVEL, by marriage. Being single are not great story components of what make T-challa and Storm interesting, there are many more facets to them and those facets are still kept whole and perhaps made stronger after marriage."
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Victor Manuel Fernandez Patiño Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Mexico Posts: 1602
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Posted: 03 January 2006 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 2
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I don't know exactly why it came down to this, when I was a kid I lived
with my grandma and one of her sisters... It wasn't easy, but I learn to
respect my elders and even, in some cases, understand them. For me
Aunt May is a very dear character.
One friend told me once he hated Aunt May because of Gerry Conway, he
wrote far to many stories with the frail old lady. Of course I find that
explanation a little bit to lame and still doesn't work for me.
Other thing that bugs me is the insistence of trying to guess Aunt May
age... She's an old fragile woman. Many fans keep thinking of May like the
old woman of the sixties and then keep thinking of Peter like a young
man of the 21-century. Why one should die of old age and one keep
young trough the years? Believe me... trying to understand the mind of a
"fan" can give you a big headache!
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Robert White Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4560
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Posted: 03 January 2006 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | 3
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Ororo and T'Challa are married now? The characters never had anything to do with each other for years, but I guess that matters not. They where both attractive, single, characters of African decent and just screamed "should be married" to the powers that be I suppose...
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Brian Miller Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 31161
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Posted: 03 January 2006 at 2:24pm | IP Logged | 4
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Not married yet. Apparantly later in the year.
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Victor Manuel Fernandez Patiño Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Mexico Posts: 1602
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Posted: 03 January 2006 at 2:26pm | IP Logged | 5
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Bwahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
Wow!
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Mike Bunge Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1335
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Posted: 03 January 2006 at 2:29pm | IP Logged | 6
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"Found this quote on another board:
"What does annoy me is why Quesada thinks that having T'Challa & Ororo married is fine but that same institution somehow ruins Peter Parker."
He is referencing a Newsarama Q & A with Quesada in which he said this:
"With respect to the character and their integrity, these are two characters that I don't think are harmed by marriage. There are some like Spider-Man that I believe do get harmed on a STORY LEVEL, by marriage. Being single are not great story components of what make T-challa and Storm interesting, there are many more facets to them and those facets are still kept whole and perhaps made stronger after marriage.""
I can't figure out if this means Quesada thinks Peter Parker is more developed or less developed a character than T'Challa and Ororo? Is he saying Peter Parker is this ridid, simplistic character that is easily damaged or is he saying that T'Challa and Ororo are shallow and unformed characters who can only benefit from a major change?
I am clear that marriage harms the character of Spider-Man. Ripping out his eye and giving him "spider-stingers" while making him the avatar of some Spider god, that's perfectly okay. ;)
Mike
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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7526
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Posted: 03 January 2006 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 7
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I think marriage for Spider-Man, like marriage for Superman, was a mistake. A colossal mistake. It changed the character's status quo so drastically that some fundamental aspects of both were lost and could not be recovered. As JB said, superheroes are wish fulfillment-- what kid fantasizes about being married? Kids empathize with the guy who doesn't get the girl (e.g., "classic" Clark and Peter); they empathize an awful lot less with the guy who marries a supermodel or a gorgeous reporter.
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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7526
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Posted: 03 January 2006 at 3:15pm | IP Logged | 8
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As for Aunt May, her role had always been loving and supportive toward Peter while being hostile toward Spider-Man-- thus Peter could not get unqualified love and support, since his alter ego was hated by one person whose love he most needed. It's a nice state of emotional tension...which was wiped out when it was revealed that Aunt May had known Peter was Spider-Man for some time. Sort of makes her the Obi-Wan of the MU, to me. (Then again, I don't recall if she had spent any time recently castigating "that awful Spider-Man" so I might be being a bit unfair to the lady.)
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Taavi Suhonen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 April 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 1544
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Posted: 03 January 2006 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 9
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I've never hated Aunt May. I think she is the most important supporting
cast member for Spider-Man. I admit to liking the story of her death,
but it wasn't because she died - it was because it was a touching
story. I missed her the next issue and when a few issues later
Traveller offered to bring her back to life (at a price of course -
life of a another person would be needed to do it) I wanted Peter to
take the offer. When he refused, I realised that choice was the right
thing to do - no matter how much we loved someone, it's wrong to take
another life to get that person back. I love having her back, but the
decision to let her know Peter's secret was idiotic (it wasn't idiotic
enough to get me to stop buying the Finnish Spider-Man title - it took
the awful story in which the webbing become organic to do that).
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Trevor Krysak Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4160
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Posted: 03 January 2006 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | 10
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Well I've tried to read 'The Other'. Makes me miss reading Spider-Man in the 80's and early 90's. And all those lovely stories from the earliest day onward. This current run just seems all so drawn out and pointless. My impression as I went through it is that they are trying to parrot the worst excesses of the X-men on Spider-Man titles. It justs seems so overdone.
How hard is it to get Peter Parker and Spider-Man right? He's (to my mind at any rate) one of the most strongly defined characters out there. But it seems these days most of what makes the character great have fallen by the wayside. What I really wonder is what can be done to recapture that earlier magic, if anything?
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Mike Bunge Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1335
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Posted: 03 January 2006 at 4:28pm | IP Logged | 11
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"I think marriage for Spider-Man, like marriage for Superman, was a mistake."
I think there is one difference, though. Lois Lane is supposed to be the one girl for Superman (that mermaid girl aside). In that sense, the marriage isn't what's wrong...it's Lois knowing about his secret identity. Granted it's hard to have one without the other.
But with Peter Parker, he was never meant to have just one love. While almost all other super-heroes either had one permanent love interest or none, Peter Parker had two girls (Betty Brant and Liz Allen) interested in him almost from the very beginning. That was an earthshaking bit of genius from Lee/Ditko.
Mike
Edited by Mike Bunge on 03 January 2006 at 4:29pm
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Thomas Mets Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 September 2004 Location: United States Posts: 898
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Posted: 03 January 2006 at 4:32pm | IP Logged | 12
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I can't figure
out if this means Quesada thinks Peter Parker is more developed or less
developed a character than T'Challa and Ororo? Is he saying Peter
Parker is this ridid, simplistic character that is easily damaged or is
he saying that T'Challa and Ororo are shallow and unformed characters
who can only benefit from a major change?
I am clear that marriage harms the character of
Spider-Man. Ripping out his eye and giving him "spider-stingers" while
making him the avatar of some Spider god, that's perfectly okay. ;)
********************************************************** ***********
The loss of Spider-Man's eyes was fixed in Part 9 of "The Other" (3
issues after it occurred.) The spider-stinger, or the "avatar of the
spider-god" concept (flaweed as they are) really don't prevent future
storytellers from telling any stories in the way marrying off
Spider-Man did. It removed any tension from "Will I make it to my
dinner date in time" now that he has an understanding wife, and no
incentive to rush a battle with the Rhino.
Being single was a core part of Spider-Man's identity
far more than it was for Black Panther/ Storm. For seven or so years,
almost every Uncanny X-Men issue would've had the same exact story if
Storm were married. Black Panther's marital status played no role in
his first Lee- Kirby Fantastic Four appearances.
However, I don't think there's anything that can be
done right now to end Spider-Man's marriage. Having Peter become
divorced/ a widower simply makes him seem older, and somehow magicly
removing the marriage from continuity will confuse those familiar with
the great stories in which the two are married (Kraven's Last Hunt, the
Mcfarlane Venom stories, etc.) New writers just have to learn to tell
good stories with the current status quo, which many have (Peter David,
Mark Millar, Dan Slott, etc.)
Ororo and T'Challa are married now? The characters never had anything
to do with each other for years, but I guess that matters not. They
where both attractive, single, characters of African decent and just
screamed "should be married" to the powers that be I suppose...
********************************************************** ****
They're not only "of African descent." They are African (which does
give them some similarities.) And here am I defending a story I'm
probably not going to read (just not a fan of Milligan's X-Men, or
Hudlin's Black Panther.)
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