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Topic: Title Change: Spider-Man Thread (Now with New Costume) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Glenn Greenberg
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Posted: 06 January 2006 at 2:35pm | IP Logged | 1  

Junkie ex-porn star who sold DD's identity to his worst enemy for a fix
of drugs. Originally? Demure Law Secretary in love with the hero.


As I recall, Karen didn't know that the information would fall into the
Kingpin's hands.
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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 06 January 2006 at 2:36pm | IP Logged | 2  

Ok.  Gwen had her blip too.  Karen's seems far worse than Gwen's, but IDK what had been done to Karen pre-miller.  Still, even making the Black Cat an ex porn star druggie who sold Peter's identity would seem like a big stretch and harsh.

Even if Peter forgived her and she repented.

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Matt Reed
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Posted: 06 January 2006 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 3  

Yup, that's true.  She didn't sell it to the Kingpin, but to a drug dealer who then turned around and gave the info to him.  Doesn't excuse her, but she was so strung out looking for a fix that she wasn't in her right mind at all.
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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 06 January 2006 at 2:38pm | IP Logged | 4  

As I recall, Karen didn't know that the information would fall into the
Kingpin's hands.

***

Maybe so, but would anyone write off JMS so easy if he proposed a similar thing? She sold it for a heroin fix. I can imagine, Gwen Stacy, heroine addict/porn star.

Or even Mary Jane-her dreams of Broadway dashed, she winds up making nudie movies and selling Peter Parker's id for crack. Ok, so it happens to get into the hands of Dr. Octopus*

*Had trouble thinking of a Spidey guy who didn't know his id.



Edited by Rob Hewitt on 06 January 2006 at 2:40pm
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Glenn Greenberg
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Posted: 06 January 2006 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 5  

What JMS did was RETROACTIVE. He took a long-dead character, who
was no longer an issue or an ongoing concern, and who had always been
portrayed one way, and then dug her up and made a significant change to
this character and her history--and didn't even make it work within the
established continuity.

What FM did was take a still living character who had not appeared in the
book for a long time and showed what had happened to her since we'd
last seen her--and unfortunately, it turned out that she'd fallen on very
hard times. And desperate people do desperate things.

I'm sure there are cases of aspiring actresses who couldn't make it in
mainstream movies and ended up in porn, and then ended up as part of
the drug scene. I believe Marilyn Chambers is one example. What Frank
did with Karen didn't really conflict with anything we knew about her--he
showed what happened AFTER we'd last seen her.

Very different from what JMS did to Gwen.
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Darragh Greene
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Posted: 06 January 2006 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | 6  

And, significantly, by the end of the run, he'd redeemed her too!
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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 06 January 2006 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | 7  

I think either way was a pretty sleazy and inappropriate thing to do.

I mean heck, MJ could become a porn star-she's an active character and she could even disappear from the book for awhile to boot beforehand, just so we could explain what happened to her. It has happened before.. and sure it is realistic, it happens. In a world of 5 billion people EVERYTHING happens.

and yet, it wouldn't be right. It just wouldn't. Whether the reset button is hit at the end or not. 

Some of your argument sounds like JMS. Sure many college girls make sexual mistakes. Many sleep with older men, who treat them badly.  Many do get pregnant.  and heck, she did the right thing, she kept the babies and she was going to tell Peter. and yet, its creepy. It wasn't right for Gwen.

Just hope it isn't revealed Jason Todd was making european porn films all these years and sold Bruce's identity for a bit of moonshine.

and heck, where is Liz Allen and Betty Brant, haven't seen them in awhile. Sure, they are nice girls, but they have their share of stress and mental problems, and NYC is a tough place to live.  What? THey are starring in a peep show??? and just what happened to Randi Bambi and Candi(?)

For Foggy's sake, he better stay in the book and remain popular!



Edited by Rob Hewitt on 06 January 2006 at 3:01pm
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Brendan Howard
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Posted: 06 January 2006 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 8  

Does anyone have a theory about why so many readers seem to hate Aunt May so much? Why they were okay with her being written out of the book (killed or otherwise)? I have long believed that readers don't appreciate nagging parental figures in their own lives so they don't want Peter to have one. Am I missing something?

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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 06 January 2006 at 3:03pm | IP Logged | 9  

And, significantly, by the end of the run, he'd redeemed her too!

***

and Gwen had those babies and was going to raise them right, by golly, with Peter at her side!

(Make no mistake, I am not defending JMS here).

Heck, we haven't seen Rick Jones in awhile. Bet he knows a lot of secrets. and a musician's life is a tough life after all.  Sure, betcha it happens all the time. ;)

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Darragh Greene
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Posted: 06 January 2006 at 3:14pm | IP Logged | 10  

Something to remember about Born Again - it was a morality tale
about an evil man trying to destroy the only good man he knew, and that
good man going through hell but coming back redeemed, and how his
love redeems his once-lost-but-found-again true love. There's nothing
tawdry about it, nothing sensational; it wasn't an 'event'; and it had a
happy ending. Nothing at all like the Gwen Stacy business.
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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 06 January 2006 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 11  

Great idea.  Appropriate for Daredevil and Karen Page? Again not the Daredevil and Karen Page I know from the first years of his book.
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Glenn Greenberg
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Posted: 06 January 2006 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 12  

<<Some of your argument sounds like JMS.>>

NOW you're playing dirty.


>:-)
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