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Robert White Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4560
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Posted: 14 December 2005 at 11:58am | IP Logged | 1
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My first trade, and my first introduction to the character, was an
early 80's Marvel TPB featuring a neat painted cover (which I got
sometime in the mid-80's). I believe it collected the Justin Hammer
"frame-up" arc.
I have to say that I much prefer the Steve Englehart/Jim Starlin Surfer
to Stan's take.Though, I still like Stan's. I believe those guys
intjected a "coolness" of mentality to the character more akin to Kirby
than Lee.
As far as most heroic goes...I'd have to go with the two big named
heroes without powers. Batman and Captain America. Take your pick.
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Mike Farley Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2701
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Posted: 14 December 2005 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | 2
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Looking at the cover to IRON MAN #126 it's just amazing how BACKWARD the armor has become, technologically speaking, over the years. Ever since that version of the armor went away in IRON MAN #200 the armor has gotten bulkier and less slick. I could accept this if the tech had gotten better, but the armor now doesn't really do anything any better than it ever did. It's the same super strength, repulsors, flying gimicks that it always was, only now with 50% more bulk.
Tony used to be able to collapse his armor so that it was as soft and suple as cloth. Then he could put in in a BRIEFCASE and carry it around. Now he puts it in a giant crate and it has to be shipped around in a Stark Enterprises jet "disguised" as Tony's car. Yeah, that's progress.
And for those of you who regularly read the book (on the rare occation an issue comes out) when did Stark Solutions, Tony's post-Hero's Return consulting company, becomeStark Enterprises again. Was there a story involved, or was this like so many other things in comics these days, just another example of lazy writers and poor editors who couldn't be bothered to do any research?
Sorry for the mini-rant, but I really like Iron Man and wish there was a book, that was worth buying, featuring the character.
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Roger A Ott II Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5371
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Posted: 14 December 2005 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | 3
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Mike Farley: Tony used to be able to collapse his armor so that it was as soft and suple as cloth...Now he puts it in a giant crate and it has to be shipped around in a Stark Enterprises jet "disguised" as Tony's car.
Part of that was rationalized away during Kurt Busiek's run. It turned out the Iron Man armor was killing him, due to the massive amounts of electrical energy and radiation that the armor put out. He was basically cooking in a tin can all these years. The new armor that he created had a lot more shielding in it, therefore not quite as collapsable as before, and not able to fit into a briefcase. It appears that's been taken to a new extreme lately, though.
Bob Layton hit on an interesting point at his website recently. Most technology, as it evolves and gets more intricate, also get's slimmer and sleeker in style (think cell phones). Iron Man's armor should do the same, and Bob drew up a pretty cool armor on his site to illustrate his idea.
Mike Farley: And for those of you who regularly read the book (on the rare occation an issue comes out) when did Stark Solutions, Tony's post-Hero's Return consulting company, becomeStark Enterprises again
Tony Stark re-acquired Stark Enterprises from the Fujikawa's back during a period of time when I had taken a hiatus from reading, so I'm not sure of the particulars of it. Stark Solutions pretty much just disappeared into oblivion.
Then, of course, in the first or second issue of Warren Ellis' new series, the company is referred to as Stark International again, so take from that what you will.
Oh, and did I also mention that thanks to Ellis, Iron Man's origin is now supposed to be tied to Operation: Desert Storm. I don't know if it was editorial driven, or some brainchild of Warren's but it sucks moose to the extreme. How do you now explain Professor Yinsen, or Wong-Chu, or the Mandarin for that matter?
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Jason Fulton Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3938
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Posted: 14 December 2005 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 4
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Way to leave the toys as you found them, WE.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134092
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Posted: 14 December 2005 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 5
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Looking at the cover to IRON MAN #126 it's just amazing how BACKWARD the armor has become, technologically speaking, over the years.***** It was well on its way, even then. In the issue for which I did layouts, around the same time as the above cover, I was instructed to start with Tony in his lab, with his different Iron Man suits on display behind him. His "underwater" suit. His "outer space" suit. Etc. "Huh?" I said. "But he's flown thru space and underwater in his regular suit! He's not Batman! He doesn't have a winter outfit, and a rainbow outfit..." But I was shouted down by the powers that were, and drew what I was told.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134092
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Posted: 14 December 2005 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 6
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Oh, and did I also mention that thanks to Ellis, Iron Man's origin is now supposed to be tied to Operation: Desert Storm. I don't know if it was editorial driven, or some brainchild of Warren's but it sucks moose to the extreme. How do you now explain Professor Yinsen, or Wong-Chu, or the Mandarin for that matter?***** Finally I understand why I was not crucified for "retconning" Iron Man's origin while I was on the book. No one noticed I'd done it! I remember Jim Lee saying he wanted to get rid of the "Vietnam War" references -- which I had already done. And Ellis moved Tony to Desert Storm, huh? To get rid of the Vietnam War, I take it. Which I had already done. Of course, my version left 99% of IM's origin intact. That's probably what was wrong with it....
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Darren Taylor Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 22 April 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 6029
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Posted: 14 December 2005 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | 7
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"Of course, my version left 99% of IM's origin intact. That's probably what was wrong with it...."-John
ROTFLMAO.
I grew up with Bob Layton as the Iron Man artist and subsequently -never- took to the character.
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Roger A Ott II Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5371
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Posted: 14 December 2005 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 8
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Darren Taylor: I grew up with Bob Layton as the Iron Man artist and subsequently -never- took to the character.
Whatever failings Bob Layton had as an artist, he did understand the character of Iron Man better than most. I'd pay good money to see the return of Bob Layton, David Michelinie, Kurt Busiek, Roger Stern, or John Byrne to the book. They respect and get the character.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36259
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Posted: 14 December 2005 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | 9
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Out of all those you mention, Roger, I never took to Busiek's run on the title. To me, it was stiff and boring. To be sure, it looked and felt more like Tony Stark had in years, but there was something missing that I can't put my finger on. Wonder? Amazement? Excitement? I dunno. I just know that I didn't cotton to his run at all.
I'll also put my two cents in on my favorite IM armor being either of the two pictured above. The gold and red armor is perfect and I, too, never understood (outside toy marketing opportunities) why IM had to have a multitude of different armors to do what he had always done with one. Count me as someone who got really tired really fast of the constant change in armor every time a new creative team took over his book.
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Roger A Ott II Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 29 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5371
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Posted: 14 December 2005 at 2:30pm | IP Logged | 10
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Matt Reed: Out of all those you mention, Roger, I never took to Busiek's run on the title. To me, it was stiff and boring. To be sure, it looked and felt more like Tony Stark had in years, but there was something missing that I can't put my finger on. Wonder? Amazement? Excitement? I dunno.
If I'm remembering correctly, Kurt said something similar to that effect himself. Something just didn't click with Iron Man for him. I always felt like something was missing from it, too, but it was leagues better than what the previous two or so years had been.
I did think he handled Iron Man well in AVENGERS at the time, though...
Edited by Roger A Ott II on 14 December 2005 at 2:31pm
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Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 11 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10182
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Posted: 14 December 2005 at 2:35pm | IP Logged | 11
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Oh, and did I also mention that thanks to Ellis, Iron Man's origin is now supposed to be tied to Operation: Desert Storm. I don't know if it was editorial driven, or some brainchild of Warren's but it sucks moose to the extreme. How do you now explain Professor Yinsen, or Wong-Chu, or the Mandarin for that matter?
***
In the case of Professor Yinsen, you just ignore him. Unlike others who sacrificed or been killed to make it possible for the hero to be, Yinsen is almost never mentioned, except in re-telling the origin. Tony doesn't mope about Professor Yinsen. You drop Wong-Chu similarly.
I'm not sure the Mandarin is really effected.
Personally, I would have just let it be an unnamed Asian country at an unnamed time. But I guess the Middle East has been more of a hotspot over the last 20 years or more.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 134092
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Posted: 14 December 2005 at 3:33pm | IP Logged | 12
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Whatever failings Bob Layton had as an artist, he did understand the character of Iron Man better than most. ***** Okay, not to start a war, or anything, but it was Bob who suggested making Tony an alcoholic. I'd say that misses the character big time!
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