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Wayde Murray
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Posted: 09 December 2005 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | 1  

Rick, you caught me. I should have said weight, since it's the gravitational attraction alone that's being negated. We're not dealing with the Vision, after all.

At least that's my theory. I seem to recall JB making the point that Superman can carry things in flight with more ease than simply lifting them off the ground, which might imply that this gravity-negation field is contiguous with items he's in contact with.

Oh God, I'm a fanboy (*choke*).
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Pablo Chiste
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Posted: 09 December 2005 at 6:53pm | IP Logged | 2  

I agree...we should start asking questions about where and how Superman does the evryday things that we "humans" consider normal. We can't just run around willy-nilly, reading comic after comic after comic having to guess what Superman does on the panels we don't see! I demand full exposure.
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Trevor Colligan
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Posted: 09 December 2005 at 7:38pm | IP Logged | 3  

Usually, my feeling is that once you start sking these types of questions, it's time to move on from reading comics!

...or start writing for M*****

gee bob, you`re just a little ray of sunshine all of the time aren`t you? i always felt it was fun to try and figure out how certain things in comics worked. like for instance, namor`s wings, while they can support him perhaps a little, i always thought he perhaps had low level telekinesis or an antigravity organ in his body, like watto has in his stomach from star wars.



Edited by Trevor Colligan on 09 December 2005 at 8:13pm
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Rick Senger
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Posted: 09 December 2005 at 7:39pm | IP Logged | 4  

Lol Wayde, no shame in a little productive thought outside the quarter box.  Maybe I am getting old, because in hindsight, of course the super tanker he plucks out of the water is going to be crushed like an eggplant as soon as he applies the force needed to yank it out of the water, but when I first read issues like that, or where he moved an entire bridge similar to the Mexico border to fake out some criminals seeking to evade extradition, I never really thought about the impossible physics of those actions.  You know, perhaps the whole telekinesis concept isn't a bad idea, because it would serve to explain not only those impossible stresses on large bodies he moves, but also his own flight issue. 
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Wayde Murray
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Posted: 09 December 2005 at 8:11pm | IP Logged | 5  

Thanks Rick. The physics that disturbed me even as a kid involved the "juggling planets" business. I could never figure out how the ground knew if he wanted it to get out of his way so he could make a tunnel or if he wanted it to stay put so he could shift the Earth in its orbit.

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Darren De Vouge
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Posted: 09 December 2005 at 9:44pm | IP Logged | 6  

Read this also.  It might address some other questions:

http://www.larryniven.org/stories/Man_of_Steel_Woman_of_Klee nex.htm
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 December 2005 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 7  

Just to comment generally, it is important to remember that the "evolution" of Superman's mythos did not occur with any kind of overview in mind. Bits and pieces were tacked on -- or removed! -- at the whim of editors and writers, and sometimes those were not even people employed by National Periodicals.

Originally, as most of you know, Krypton was a "world of supermen", with everyone possessing the same powers Kal-El (originally Kal-L) had when he arrived on Earth. There was nothing about the Earth or its parent star which imparted the powers -- everybody on Krypton had them. (In his first appearance, Jor-L was seen leaping over the towers of his home city to reach the bedside of his wife, who had just given birth.)

The leaping turned into flight when the animators of the first cartoons found it more convenient to have Superman travel that way. His other powers increased in the way superhero powers tend to in all such characters -- with each writer trying to outdo what has come before. (See the thread on the size of the Hulk over the years!) Superman's greatest weakness, kryptonite, entered the lore when Bud Collier, who played Superman on the radio serials, wanted a vacation. The radioactive element was introduced to incapacitate the Man of Steel, so another actor could moan while Collier took his time off. Jimmy Olsen also emerged from the radio.

More dramatic changes occured as side effects. As Superman became more powerful, the natives of Krypton -- once known as Kryptonites, in the earliest uses of the word -- grew weaker. By the time he could fly between the stars, they were reduced to mere mortals, and all Superman's fantastic powers were explained as effects of Earth's gravity or the radiation of our "yellow sun". (Super muscles and weaker gravity were never a very good explanation of how Superman could fly, but that was all that was offered, so it had to do!)

The way Superman's powers work has always been played at the whim of the writer or editor. Sometimes kryptonite strips him instantly of all his powers, leaving him at death's door in the blink of an eye. Sometimes the powers -- and his life -- fade slowly. The "solar radiation" explanation worked up to a point, but did not serve too well when Superman found himself under a sun of a differnt hue, and his powers again disappeared instantly. One would think his powers would fluctuate madly as he flew thru deep space, making such a journey highly inadvisable, but this was not addressed.

And, of course, there were most telling moments when Superman, afflicted with amnesia, lost his powers completely! Even his costume tore! These old and often ignored tales served the basis for my assumption that his special talents were psi qualities.

Overall, the safest answer to the question "How do Superman's powers work" is "Don't ask!"

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Jay Matthews
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Posted: 10 December 2005 at 9:20am | IP Logged | 8  

JB's post sums up it well, and it's one of the reasons I'm not a Superman fan.  Don't get me wrong.  Within the whole realm of pop culture, I like Superman.  If Superman didn't exist, we'd have to invent him.

But in the comics world, I can't get into him and here's why:  I can buy into almost any gimmick or conceit to follow a comic book hero.  But with Superman, it's never been clear or fair what gimmick I am expected to buy into.

Spider-Man can cling to walls because spiders can.  Done.  I don't need a physics lesson on the weight ratios of spiders to humans.  Somehow his fingertips are clingy without being gooey. 

But Superman has been all over the map with what I'm supposed to subconsciously buy into.  I don't mean it's offensive or troubling, I just mean it literally disrupts the brain waves I employ to enjoy a comic.

For the first readers of Superman, I'll bet "from another planet" was sufficient (just like "has the powers of a spider -- done").  But now that the comic universe (i.e. other planets) is fully populated, Superman is in dire need of a conceit to latch onto.  JB's Man of Steel did it just fine for me, but alas we are back where we were pre-MOS.


Edited by Jay Matthews on 10 December 2005 at 9:21am
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 10 December 2005 at 10:03am | IP Logged | 9  

Superman's a living being, and is probably in the animal kingdom and not the plant kingdom. Solar energy bolsters his biology but he should need to breathe, eat and drink (and excrete-- no biological system is 100% efficient). Don't forget that plants do not live exclusively on sunlight-- take a plant out of the soil (and sources of water and minerals) and they wither pretty darn fast.

As JB said above, it makes better sense if his abilities are largely psionic, with solar power as the battery. JB's take on kryptonite was (IIRC) that kryptonite radiation is toxic to Superman; his body's ability to act as an energy sponge betrays him, because it rapidly absorbs radiation that is poisonous to him. Fortunately, his body seems to be equally efficient at purging the effects of kryptonite poisoning.



Edited by Andrew Bitner on 10 December 2005 at 10:04am
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Vinny Valenti
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Posted: 10 December 2005 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 10  

How does Superman mind not get drowned out by his super-hearing picking up every minute sound in his range of hearing (I don't know offhand what the limit of his range is)?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 December 2005 at 10:21am | IP Logged | 11  

…it makes better sense if his abilities are largely psionic…

****

A bit of trivia -- and not much more than trivia since for the most part, as here, the terms are used interchangably these days -- the term "psi" was coined to cover all the "psychic" gifts people are supposed to have, like telepathy, teleportation, "mind over matter" and such --- while "psionic" (as the name suggests) was coined to describe a machine with such abilities.

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John Byrne
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Posted: 10 December 2005 at 10:27am | IP Logged | 12  

How does Superman mind not get drowned out by his super-hearing picking up every minute sound in his range of hearing…

****

Along with his other gifts, Superman also possesses super-concentration. He can "focus" his mind so that he shuts out unwanted intrusions, such as would be brought on by his super hearing and super vision.

(Another bit of trivia: my brief brushes with Hollywood and adjacent millieus have shown me that civilians make one mistake consistently, and that is that they refer to Superman's vision powers as his "supervision". Not only that, but in each instance in which I have encountered this, the person using the term has been genuinely convinced that he is the one who has coined it. That in all the years of Superman's existance, he is the first to think to call the collection of these powers as "supervision". Usually -- if I am in the mood for another pointless go-round -- I will indicate that we tend to refer to the powers individually -- heat vision, x-ray vision, microscopic vision, telescopic vision -- and that if, for some reason, they need to be referred to in the collective, the term is "super vision", two words. "Supervision" is a word that already exists, and has an entirely different meaning.

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