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Glenn Moane Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 August 2004 Posts: 207
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| Posted: 08 December 2005 at 4:34am | IP Logged | 1
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First thing first. I've explained why I think the post-reboot Spider-Man books were horrible. The stories were dull, but the JR jr was great in PPSM though. still, that wasn't enough to keep me buying them, as I felt I was getting less and less for what I was paying for. And didn't I mention the stupid ressurection of aunt May? It isn't that I really WANT May to stay dead, but since they killed her, she should have stay dead, instead of pulling off the stupid, stupid, stupid way to bring her back.
If you thin Liefeld is better than Eisner, then you are free to do that. I couldn't care less, since I don't care much for either of them.
As for your kid-friendly argument: I think there should be both kid-friendly Spider-Man stories, as well as more Spider-Man stories that suits the adult audience. If there is a market for it, why not fill it? Right now, the younger readers are a minority, but at least they are getting their fix with this new line. The adult readers, which it is getting more and more of, have the regular titles. What's so wrong with that?
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14892
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| Posted: 08 December 2005 at 4:48am | IP Logged | 2
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"I haven't read this storyline, and I probably never will. But it seems
from the previews that it could be no worse than the Spider-Man stories
after the reboot. But that's not the point. If somebody loved those
books, then good for them. And I ain't the one pull their books away
from these people.
Any thoughts on this?"
If the story were standalone, it would be easy to ignore. Since it crosses over all the Spider-Man titles and is supposed to change the status quo of the character, I think this point is disingenuous.
"As for your kid-friendly argument: I think there should be both
kid-friendly Spider-Man stories"
Ideally this would be the Amazing and Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man titles.
"as well as more Spider-Man stories
that suits the adult audience."
I thought this was the point of the Marvel Knights title.
"If there is a market for it, why not
fill it? Right now, the younger readers are a minority, but at least
they are getting their fix with this new line. The adult readers, which
it is getting more and more of, have the regular titles. What's so
wrong with that?"
This has been discussed ad nauseum on this board.
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Glenn Moane Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 August 2004 Posts: 207
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| Posted: 08 December 2005 at 4:58am | IP Logged | 3
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"This has been discussed ad nauseum on this board."
And still, I've never seen a decent conclusion of these discussions.
The Amazing and FNSM titles are focused on a teen+ audience, if I'm not mistaken. The Marvel Adventures line is for the kids. Whatever the "ideal" may be, doesn't matter, as long as the two audiences gets their share.
I one doesn't want to support the current crossover, just don't. There are tons of other Spider-Man stories out there to read, till things get back to "normal".
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12843
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| Posted: 08 December 2005 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 4
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"
JMS has been setting up years of Spider-Man plots beginning with his
first arc. Issue 75 of Ultimate Spider-Man provided pay-off to a plot
point set in the first issue. Comic creators working for Marvel have
some really long term plans, something creators working for DC really
can't have."
What I'm saying is that whatever plans they have for this character,
they cannot be for Spider-Man. Because whoever this character is, it
isn't Spider-Man.
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Thanos Kollias Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 June 2004 Location: Greece Posts: 5009
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| Posted: 08 December 2005 at 7:52am | IP Logged | 5
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Question 1:
Since we have the T+ version in Amazing and FN, the more adult one in Marvel Knights and the kid's version, why is there an Ultimate version as well?
Answer 1:
For the creators....
Question 2:
Then, why don't they put JMS, who obviously writes a very different caracter than the one we knew so far, in the Ultimate Line?
Answer 2:
Because BMB and Bagley have to do more issues than Stan and Jack did in their FF run.
Conclusion: 1 book for the kids and all the rest for the creators and THEIR fans. Taking the character into consideration has ceased being an option a long time ago.
That's basically what I understand about Marvel these days.
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5833
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| Posted: 08 December 2005 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 6
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SPOILERS FOR THE NEXT PART OF THE OTHER:
Apparently, the next issue is about the "aftermath" of Peter's death -- not a great idea, as we all know Peter is dead. I liked the funeral for Superman in the Silver Banshee issue of Action Comics from way back, along with the JLA's and (especially) Luthor's reaction to his death, but it was never presented as the thrust of the issue (and of course, the bad guy was caught at the end of it).
Moreover, it's bad enough, I think, that JMS had Aunt May discover Peter's identity and not die from the shock (she did have a weak heart, right? Did that just change overnight?) but to have her actually deal with Peter's death (and again not die from the shock) is, to me, a complete betrayal of the character. Fine, let Peter appear to be dead but why not contrive a way to *not* have Aunt May know about it since we know it's temporary? And while I'm on the subject, doesn't anyone else think it's odd that Aunt May has clearly gotten *younger* over the years while Peter has gotten older. Marvel has repeatedly stated that Peter is pushing 30 (which I hate, by the way) but if Aunt May was already elderly when he became Spider-Man, then she should be well into her 80s yet she hasn't been depicted as such in years.
Finally, this issue seems to be another fine example of decompression: The cover of the damn book has Peter in a cocoon. And the last page of the book... has Peter in a cocoon. What is someone supposed to gain by reading this? What actual advancement of the plot was made? Honestly, the past eight issues of this storyarc could have been done in about three issues tops.
Feh.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135409
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| Posted: 08 December 2005 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 7
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Spiders spin cocoons?
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Gregg Allinson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4252
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| Posted: 08 December 2005 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 8
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Also remember that Peter started wrapping himself in a web fluid cocoon during the wretched (and mercifully short lived) "I am the Spider" period that, IIRC, ran for a few issues in the lead-up to the Clone Saga.
It didn't make any sense back then, either.
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5833
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| Posted: 08 December 2005 at 10:58am | IP Logged | 9
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Spiders spin cocoons?
************************************
Yes, they also have stingers that come out of their wrists and unlimited webbing that is shot from the exact same place.
So, where are the purists who objected to the change in Electro's costume? Yeesh.
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Gregg Allinson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4252
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| Posted: 08 December 2005 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 10
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Should the readers that absolutely adore "The Other" be denied of their great reading experience, because the "true", hardcore Spider-Man fans dislikes it?
It goes beyond that. If I wrote a story where Superman was a homeless junkie who had no powers and just imagined that he was the Last Son of Krypton, which would be more wrong: depriving the readers of the story, or writing it in the first place? The Other is not a Spider-Man story, period. It may or may not be a good story on its own merits, and I do realise that different writers are going to have slightly different visions of Spider-Man, but this is virtually nobody's idea of a Spider-Man story...except JMS's, I suppose.
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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12843
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| Posted: 08 December 2005 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 11
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Next up: Spidey lays eggs.
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Emery Calame Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5773
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| Posted: 08 December 2005 at 11:01am | IP Logged | 12
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Ironically there is a type of wasp who's parasitic larva can force an orb spider to weave a cocoon it would not otherwise weave.
http://www.museums.org.za/bio/spiderweb/manip_wasp.htm
So Spider-Man is obviously dealing with a parasitic larva(the other) forcing him to do this stuff. Could this be the work of the Brood from the Cockrum and Claremont era? Anybody seen any giant purple cyborg space catfish around?
Or is it JMS making him do weird things as he sucks the final blood out of the property?
BTW Spider-Man just got through with turning into a spider, dying, and splitting open LAST year just to give him bug-talk and bio-webs. They called it Spider-Man disassembled. I think next he should get rocket boots and a robot arm and katanna and a flaming skull head. And he needs Spider-Hearing.
Edited by Emery Calame on 08 December 2005 at 11:17am
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