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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36451
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| Posted: 02 December 2005 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | 1
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Jason Fulton wrote:
| Well, FNSM #3 features (HIGHLIGHT TO READ) Spider-Man repeatedly stabbing Morlun while thinking "This is how it was suppossed to be. The Spider has found itself at last (END SPOILERS). So I guess JMS has been laying the groundwork for this since his run started - which probably makes it worse. |
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Yup. I take back everything I've ever said about JMS, the Totem bullshit and his absolute lack of understanding the character of Spider-Man. This, my friends, is brilliance. This is, quite simply, a return to the Spider-Man of my youth. FINALLY someone "gets" Peter Parker.
Excuse me while I slit my wrists...
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Jason Schulman Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 08 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 02 December 2005 at 7:47pm | IP Logged | 2
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QUOTE:
Yet it took about eight seconds to turn my Lockjaw
story into a "practical joke".
Hmm... which writer was it did that...? |
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One who was told to do so by his editor.
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Marcus Kelligrew Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1263
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| Posted: 02 December 2005 at 9:34pm | IP Logged | 3
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Gentlemen and ladies we now know why JB's comics are so good!
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5833
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| Posted: 02 December 2005 at 9:47pm | IP Logged | 4
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I flipped through the first Ezekiel story recently and it's actually not that bad -- after all, Spider-Man did defeat the bad guy through his knowledge of science (how rare that has become!). The problem is -- as many feared -- was that all of this would continue or be considered "canon."
The last scene of the story arc, in which Aunt May walks in on a battle-weary Peter with the remains of his costume strewn around was a great cliffhanger and back when things were sane, the next episode would have had a nice explanation that would have brought everything back to the status quo rather than shattering it completely. But I suppose that's how far comics have fallen. Certain rules (the illusion of change) are no longer followed.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36451
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| Posted: 03 December 2005 at 12:37am | IP Logged | 5
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Jason Schulman wrote:
| One who was told to do so by his editor. |
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Told to do so by his editor in the manner in which it was done, or told to do so by his editor and the author took it upon himself to take what another author wrote and turn it into a practical joke? HUGE difference. One is mandate, the other is shitting on someone with the cop out that they were "told to do it."
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Jason Schulman Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 08 July 2004 Location: United States Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 03 December 2005 at 1:02am | IP Logged | 6
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PAD's words, from his blog:
----
"For what it's worth, I didn't give a damn about the Byrne
story one way or the other. I thought it wasn't bad; not great, but not
bad. It did, however, frost the flakes of several writers and the
"X-Factor" editor, basically because Byrne's story made the Inhumans look like assholes. John Byrne,
foremost advocate of adhering to creator intent, ignored not only
sequences where Stan and Jack had the Inhumans referring to, and
treating, Lockjaw as their pet or dog, but the subsequent decades worth of continuity that did the same.
So, since Quicksilver was going to be in "X-Factor," the
writers--and the editor in particular--asked me to take the opportunity
to undo that development as quickly and simply as I could. I shrugged,
said, "Okay, boss," and did so."
---
Note: supposedly Kurt Busiek had some hand in it as well, as related
here: http://www.ffplaza.com/commcenter/articles/Lockjaw.shtml
Edited by Jason Schulman on 03 December 2005 at 1:04am
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 36451
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| Posted: 03 December 2005 at 1:12am | IP Logged | 7
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So it's my second statement: "Told to do so by his editor and the author took it upon himself to take what another author wrote and turn it into a practical joke...shitting on someone with the cop out that they were 'told to do it.'" I knew that all along. I just didn't want your original post to stand without being challenged.
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Joe Smith Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 29 August 2004 Location: United States Posts: 6729
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| Posted: 03 December 2005 at 1:14am | IP Logged | 8
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I've never seen the Inhumans treat Lockjaw badly. Just the opposite, afaik.
BTW, I never saw that issue or heard of this development. It scared me, just a minute ago, reading that for the first time,
What a startling development that was. The silent Grimm panel was perfect.
Nice. JB. Nice.
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8447
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| Posted: 03 December 2005 at 1:30am | IP Logged | 9
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I'm not sure I can get behind the Lockjaw-as-talking-Inhuman idea, but the idea that 2 Inhumans were playing a practical joke on the Thing is far worse.
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Emery Calame Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5773
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| Posted: 03 December 2005 at 3:40am | IP Logged | 10
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Well...the Inhumans ARE pretty much semi-crazy inbred elitist ass holes mired in very old and politically incorrect (and often not very humanistic or individualist) traditions? Aren't they?
I've always read them as kind of a sick stagnant automated society/race that has hyper-bred and mutated itself itself to near extinction in pursuit of great power. Their policies of near absolute eugenic monarchy and a scientist class running everything are all ideas that are pretty compatible with having some kid become a teleporting dog-like being and then being treated ever after as a dog because "heck it's traditional". That's what the mists brought out in him so that's what he is.
As individuals the Inhumans seem okay but as a society they are pretty scary. It's like the people of Gormenghast trapped in some never ending exercise of ritual because after millenia of it there is NOTHING else left of thier cultural vitality.
Edited by Emery Calame on 03 December 2005 at 9:59am
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Todd Douglas Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 July 2004 Posts: 4101
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| Posted: 03 December 2005 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
| So it's my second statement: "Told to do so by his editor and the
author took it upon himself to take what another author wrote and turn
it into a practical joke...shitting on someone with the cop out that
they were 'told to do it.'" |
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I don't see anything in the proverbial peek behind the curtains that describes what you're describing.
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5833
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| Posted: 03 December 2005 at 9:22am | IP Logged | 12
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"John Byrne, foremost advocate of adhering to creator intent, ignored not only sequences where Stan and Jack had the Inhumans referring to, and treating, Lockjaw as their pet or dog, but the subsequent decades worth of continuity that did the same. "
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Nothing about that states that Lockjaw was not an Inhuman at some point. A friend's sister has Down's Syndrome and is mentally at the level of a seven year old. That's how her family treats her -- even my friend who is actually younger than she is. They aren't being "assholes" -- anymore than the Inhumans would be for treating something that looks like a big dog as a big dog (it's not like they had him on a leash or something -- heck, given how some people treat their pets, you'd think those poodles wearing sweaters and attending doggie daycare were once people).
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I'm not sure I can get behind the Lockjaw-as-talking-Inhuman idea, but the idea that 2 Inhumans were playing a practical joke on the Thing is far worse.
******************************************
Yes, it undermined the whole point of the story, which was to accept a child for what it is -- normal or exceptional -- rather than risk deforming it, which was what happened to Lockjaw. If you really had a a problem with Lockjaw as a former Inhuman, then you should find a better way of retconning that development than a "practical joke."
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