Author |
|
Dave Carr Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1850
|
Posted: 02 December 2005 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
"...with every intention of putting things back the way he found them upon his departure from the book."
Sorry, Todd, but PAD doesn't get off that easy. The hand was just a superficial symptom of the overall disease. PAD fundamentally changed Aquaman, just as JMS is fundamentally changing the Spider-Man character with this storyline. I don't care if he was going to undo it in five or ten years. The damage was done. Thanks to that storyline, most kids today only know Aquaman as the hook-handed Ahab/Namor clone he created.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135328
|
Posted: 02 December 2005 at 2:54pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
I remember thinking, "Poor Arthur! All these years in the Sub-Mariner's shadow, and the best he can get for a 'bold new direction' is --- to be made more liike Namor."
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Thomas Mets Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 05 September 2004 Location: United States Posts: 898
|
Posted: 02 December 2005 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
"...with every intention of putting things back the way he found them upon his departure from the book."
Sorry, Todd, but PAD doesn't get off that easy. The hand was just a
superficial symptom of the overall disease. PAD fundamentally changed
Aquaman, just as JMS is fundamentally changing the Spider-Man character
with this storyline. I don't care if he was going to undo it in five
or ten years. The damage was done. Thanks to that storyline, most
kids today only know Aquaman as the hook-handed Ahab/Namor clone he
created.
********************************************************** *****************
I agree that subsequent writers who kept the change & the
editors who took PAD (what's the A stand for?) off the book without
telling the new writers to reverse the change are more worthy of blame
than the writer who intended the change to be temporary.
I'd google it but I'm afraid of what my come up if I put "Spider-Man
kills woman" in the search field...This is the internet after all.
********************************************************** **************
You get some comic book reviews, and the report of a tragic death at
Universal Studios. If you put the words in quotation marks you get no
results, although maybe it'll link to this thread soon enough.
Edited by Thomas Mets on 02 December 2005 at 3:01pm
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 135328
|
Posted: 02 December 2005 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
Sorry, no. There are many writers who take an approach that is a variant of "So what? I/They can always change it later!" These writers forget that no one seems to really have any control over what gets carved in stone. Thru-out my career, I have always written my stories with an eye to the future, to whoever will follow, and I have thus kept in mind that a new writer should be able to pick up a series at approximately the same place I did, no matter how long I am on the book. Hence, the ever important (and often forgotten) illusion of change.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Todd Douglas Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 July 2004 Posts: 4101
|
Posted: 02 December 2005 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
We'll just have to disagree, then, David. I think that a writer's intended (but unreached) endpoint carries some weight, at least inasmuch as that writer having no control over subsequent writers and editors choosing to keep those elements from an ultimately-unfinished character arc.
Thus, I'd say that, in the context of the comment in this thread, making the association to Aquaman's (intended to be temporary) loss of a hand isn't a strong parallel.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Todd Douglas Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 14 July 2004 Posts: 4101
|
Posted: 02 December 2005 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
QUOTE:
Sorry, no. There are many writers who take an approach that is a variant of "So what? I/They can always change it later!" These writers forget that no one seems to really have any control over what gets carved in stone. Thru-out my career, I have always written my stories with an eye to the future, to whoever will follow, and I have thus kept in mind that a new writer should be able to pick up a series at approximately the same place I did, no matter how long I am on the book. Hence, the ever important (and often forgotten) illusion of change. |
|
|
I think that's exactly what we're talking about with Aquaman...the illusion of change. A good parallel would be the period in which you had She-Hulk in the FF. Someone else could (and, if I recall, did), come along during the course of that storyline. At that point, it's their call to either keep Jen on the team or bring back Ben. If the subsequent writer(s) attempt to maintain that illusion beyond the point you would have, are you then, "to blame" for that? And all simply because you were pulled outta the sandbox before you had a chance to put the toys away?
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Francesco Vanagolli Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 03 June 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 3130
|
Posted: 02 December 2005 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
QUOTE:
JMS's Spider-Man is making me more worried for the future of the character now, than when I dropped the book during the clone years. |
|
|
Which future?
By the way, I have read FNSM #1 today. Not bad, PAD has been able to write somethin' good involving that stupid totem matter. I'm afraid the next chapters will not be at the same level.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
|
Jeff Stockwell Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1610
|
Posted: 02 December 2005 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
...says the guy that cut off Aquaman's hand.
...with every intention of putting things back the way he found them upon
his departure from the book.
Unfortunately, said departure was abrupt and early...
(He's gone on record with his general plans for the unfinished portion of
his run several times.)
Now, I have a question for JB, with no attempt to be argumentative. Is the
Aquaman situation much different from what you did with the Vision in
your West Coast Avengers run? You have said in the past that you had an
"out" all set up to restore the Vision to his pre-you condition. It sounds as
if PAD had a similar "out" planned with Aquaman, but he didn't get to
implement it before leaving the book.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
|
Andrew W. Farago Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 19 July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4076
|
Posted: 02 December 2005 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
I'd take that "people Spider-Man's killed" list with a
grain of salt, since a fair number of them seem to fall
under the "comic book action scene" category of big
explosions that may or may not have done
permanent damage to the bad guy. It's sloppy
storytelling when that happens, but in most cases,
the writer doesn't mean to imply that the hero has
deliberately taken a human life.
Examples of this can be found in just about any
superhero movie, like the bit in Batman Begins when
Bruce Wayne refuses to kill a man in combat about
30 seconds before he triggers a series of
explosions that almost definitely resulted in some
fatalities.
__
Spoiler for Spider-Man vs. Wolverine:
[spoiler]The woman in Spider-Man vs. Wolverine
was a spy named Charlemagne, and she pretty
much goaded Spider-Man into killing her since she
was growing weary of her lifestyle, which involved
any number of enemies that she'd made over the
years vowing to track her to the ends of the earth and
kill her. She attacked Spider-Man from behind, and
he struck her with a blow intended for Wolverine,
which was basically suicide on her part.[/spoiler]
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
|
Jason Fulton Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 3938
|
Posted: 02 December 2005 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Well, FNSM #3 features (HIGHLIGHT TO READ) Spider-Man repeatedly stabbing Morlun while thinking "This is how it was suppossed to be. The Spider has found itself at last (END SPOILERS). So I guess JMS has been laying the groundwork for this since his run started - which probably makes it worse.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Rob Hewitt Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 11 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10182
|
Posted: 02 December 2005 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
Sounds like he is not in his right mind.
Truthfully, for a long time I thought all this Morlun stuff was in his mind, as he undergoes whatever transformation he will undergo and because of his disease.
Edited by Rob Hewitt on 02 December 2005 at 4:00pm
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
|
Brian Kirk Byrne Robotics Member

Joined: 02 November 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1244
|
Posted: 02 December 2005 at 4:24pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
So Spider-Man gives birth to himself? Wow....
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
|