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Brian Kirk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 November 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1243
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| Posted: 28 November 2005 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | 1
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"Eye Think This Hurts"
"Eye Hate Morlun"
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Thomas Mets
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 898
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| Posted: 28 November 2005 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 2
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Here's a radical idea. How about comic companies just make their
superhero books about heroes that are heroic? Not turning on each
other. Not going mad and killing their friends. Not losing
body parts.
Wouldn't that be a concept???
********************************************************** *******************
Small point, but Spider-Man losing body parts does not make him less heroic.
How would the reboot of worked exactly? Would it have wiped
out villians like the Hobgoblin, or would it of happened, but Peter was
in high school instead?
I’m very sorry I couldn't phrase that better.
**********************************************
I didn't think of this. They'd basically have to reintroduce most of
the villains (anyone from Molten Man on), since their first appearances
would contradict their original storylines. On the other hand it's not
that hard to introduce the Hobgoblin even if Peter's still in high
school. The storyline can still work even if the Green Goblin's still
alive. There'd be the added tension of whether news reports about the
Hobgoblin will remind Norman Osborn (who'd have to be the father of a
high school friend of Peter's) about something.
And has anyone noticed how similar the Ultimate universe/ All-Star books are to the Shaper remake?
"Eye Hate Morlun"
********************************************************** *************
That's actually pretty funny.
Edited by Thomas Mets on 28 November 2005 at 7:37pm
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 28 November 2005 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 3
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"
And has anyone noticed how similar the Ultimate universe/ All-Star books are to the Shaper remake?"
I'm sure JB was planning on remaking the Hulk as a canniblistic rapist and Captain America as a prisoner-abusing thug.
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Thomas Mets
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 898
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| Posted: 28 November 2005 at 8:36pm | IP Logged | 4
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I'm sure JB was planning on remaking the Hulk as a canniblistic rapist and Captain America as a prisoner-abusing thug.
********************************************************** *************************
The Ultimate books feature Peter Parker in high school, Wolverine at
odds with the X-men who fight to protect a world that fears & hates
them from evil mutants like Magneto, a Daredevil who is attorney Matt
Murdock/ guardian of Hells Kitchen, a Hulk who is Bruce Banner:
brilliant scientist/ fugitive who loses control and becomes a dangerous eight
foot tall monster when angry, SHIELD as the government's first defense
against super-powered threats, and Captain America as a brilliant
supersoldier from World War 2 getting used to the modern era
(World War 2 flashbacks show him kicking ass in World War 2.)
The biggest difference is in the Fantastic Four but I think that's
because the 616 Fantastic 4 are already the ideal version of the team.
* edit. I didn't realize this when replying the first time, but both
complaints are about a single issue. If only the other universes had
that kind of track record.
Edited by Thomas Mets on 28 November 2005 at 8:47pm
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Rob Hewitt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10182
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| Posted: 28 November 2005 at 8:50pm | IP Logged | 5
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Captain America is not a prisoner abusing thug in Ultimates. He is a soldier. His story has been very poignant and sad. He has also been very heroic. He truly is a man out of time in the book, with everyone, including Bucky, grown old in his absence.
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Andrew Old
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 October 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 245
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| Posted: 28 November 2005 at 9:14pm | IP Logged | 6
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Isn't it a crying shame that we can have a conversation that references the mainstream universe as not being the ideal version of these characters? That we have to have the Ultimate Universe to attempt that?
The worst example of this is the answer to the following question: Which book relates the adventures of Captain America, The Wasp, Quicksilver, The Scarlet Witch, Iron Man, The Black Widow, Thor and The Hulk?
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 28 November 2005 at 9:17pm | IP Logged | 7
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There are so many other things that are wrong with Ultimate Marvel. A
Jarvis who embezzles. A Colossus who is gay for no other reason than
the writer wanting it. A Jean Grey who sleeps around.
And the tone is all wrong too. The energy, adventure of Spider-Man is
missing from the doppleganger book. The "Avengers" are not noble
protectors but cold, brutal killers, even to each other. Sorry man, I
don't want to stop you from enjoying it. But whatever it is , it is not
and can never be the incredible world of MARVEL.
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Jason Fulton
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3938
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| Posted: 28 November 2005 at 9:23pm | IP Logged | 8
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Andrew Old
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 October 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 245
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| Posted: 28 November 2005 at 9:30pm | IP Logged | 9
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I'm not saying the Ultimate Universe is perfect, or even that it has merit. What I am saying is that the mainstream universe is so broken that we need to try with another.
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Steve Lyons
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2171
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| Posted: 28 November 2005 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | 10
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Well, Jason, there's another unspoken theory put on display by the brain trust at Marvel. Now all we need is a full Monty shot of Li'l Benny, and the FF will really hit a high mark.
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Flavio Sapha
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Brazil
Posts: 12912
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| Posted: 29 November 2005 at 5:55am | IP Logged | 11
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Boy, I'd pay "protection" to never have to lay eyes on this ^^***** stuff.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 29 November 2005 at 6:04am | IP Logged | 12
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I'm not saying the Ultimate Universe is perfect, or even that it has merit. What I am saying is that the mainstream universe is so broken that we need to try with another. ***** In the musical play "1776", a line is given to Rhode Island's representative to the Continental Congress, Stephen Hopkins. He has never seen an issue, he says, so dangerous that it can't be talked about. I'd suggest the best way to "fix" most of what's wrong with Marvel and DC would be to simply invert Hopkins' logic, and stop talking about the stuff that doesn't work any more (if it ever did). I took this approach to scripting FANTASTIC FOUR, and in five years on the job, never once made reference to Reed and Ben having fought in WW2. Didn't say they hadn't, simply didn't say they did. Once upon a time, this was standard practice in superhero comics. I'd invite anyone with the access to scour DCs archives to find any reference to Krypton as a planet populated by "a race of supermen" -- all with the same powers Kal-El had -- once he reached the point that he was casually flying between star systems. When Stan and Jack brought back Captain America, in AVENGERS 4, they made no effort at all to explain the existance of a Captain America after the time they claimed he "disappeared". Wonder Woman's prop driven glass airplane became a jet without a scene showing the conversion. Etc. Etc. From major to minor, bits and pieces that no longer worked were simply ignored. We all know why and how such references became the sine qua non of "modern" comics -- but knowing the disease is the first step toward curing it, right?
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