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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 1
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"Pitch" might be too strong a word -- tho not by much, granted.Basically, I'd observed that we could, if we wished, use the Shaper of Worlds to turn back the clock (literally) on the Spider-Man titles. Parker wakes up one morning, and he's back in high school. And all the other Marvel titles could have joined in if they wanted to. Given the deliberate sabotage embarked upon by some "professionals" I doubt that this would really have worked, even if it had been implemented.
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | 2
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Rebooting the entire Marvel line is hardly the worst idea I've ever
heard. (It would have to go along with cancelling the Ultimate
line to truly work, I figure.) The trick would be to come up with new
stories that are actually new , i.e. don't just retell the old stories, while remaining true to the characters as they were intended to be.
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Rob Hewitt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10182
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 3
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You mean 1/10 the sales that Spider-Man used to do for decades? 1/10 the sales the Avengers did for decades? Or the sales with which Daredevil would've been cancelled in any other decade?
********************************************************** **************************
No, I believe he's believing to sales that better than the sales of any current Batman book without the words Frank Miller and/ or Jim Lee in the credits box.
***
No what I was really saying is:
Some guy said -Joe Q. only hires his friends.
I said, well, if you are referencing who i think you are, they are writing the best selling books today, for Marvel and the industry, so it is an unfair criticism. No one else is doing better.
Marvel is run as a public company now. If they weren't getting the results the bean counters wanted, someone else would be in there now. Does joe Q/. sell as many books as say Jim Shooter? No. No one else does either. Has he kept sales steady even increasing somewhat since he came aboard? i think so-I believe publishing is up. Could someone have done even better than he did? Maybe, maybe not. I'm not the Watcher-I don't have access to all alternate timelines.
Edited by Rob Hewitt on 27 November 2005 at 2:07pm
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Sam Karns
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7624
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 3:07pm | IP Logged | 4
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Marvel already attempted the REBOOT gimmick. Remember HEROES REBORN? If M***** attempts to do this, which I doubt, who would be willing to step on Stan Lee's phenomenal work?
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 3:11pm | IP Logged | 5
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Well, that's really no different from JB's work on Chapter One or Doom
Patrol. There were those who thought by doing so, JB was stepping on
Stan Lee, Arnold Drake, or Grant Morrison. Hey, we all enjoyed CO and
DP, and guess what -- the old Spider-Man and Doom Patrol stories
haven't been ruined in any way.
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Jason Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2473
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | 6
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Heroes Reborn was a
"selective" reboot -- it rebooted a few select characters,
without declaring the previous Universe to be "over." The sort of
reboot I was talking about would be a total reboot -- the entire Marvel Universe would start over as if none of the characters had ever existed before.
And no, I can't imagine "M*****" doing this. There would have to be a
new EiC, because I can't imagine Quesada waking up one day and going
"God, we've been doing everything wrong for years!"
Edited by Jason Schulman on 27 November 2005 at 3:50pm
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | 7
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This is just another example of just how far astray Marvel has gone. You would need a scorched-earth approach to even begin to get these titles back to where they should be. However, twenty years ago, the scorched-earth approach DC took with its titles was arguably overkill -- the characters weren't so far gone that you couldn't "do a JB" and put them back where they should within a storyarc (as he did with the FF).
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Darren De Vouge
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 December 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 3586
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 5:08pm | IP Logged | 8
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Marvel already attempted the REBOOT gimmick. Remember HEROES REBORN?
If M***** attempts to do this, which I doubt, who would be willing to
step on Stan Lee's phenomenal work?
***************************
Stepping on? or is it preserving his legacy.
The idea would be to reboot the characters so that they would once more
have the look and feel of what Stan Lee had created.
Edited by Darren De Vouge on 27 November 2005 at 5:11pm
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Brian Kirk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 November 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1243
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | 9
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Okay, if we're going to reboot the M***** characters with creators who are with us today, then its JB on FF, Sal Buscema on Hulk, J.R. Jr. on Spidey, Walt Simonson on Thor, Perez on Avengers, Frank Miller on Daredevil, Bob Layton on Iron Man...all written by Stan Lee (in the Mighty Marvel Manner) 'Nuff Said!
But really, do you think all it would take is for a fan of 'old school' story-telling (providing they can write and/or draw) to say 'nuff is enuff and start to whip M****** into shape? I think it will continue to be higher-ups saying "go for the most shocking" because that's what will bring in the younger crowd (they have the most disposable income). Wish I had that..
People in this forum know that they want their comics to contain well written stories and excellent artwork. We deserve it! And I still buy comics I dislike because I have 'em all. What a maroon.
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Thomas Mets
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 898
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 7:10pm | IP Logged | 10
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Marvel already attempted the REBOOT gimmick. Remember HEROES REBORN?
If M***** attempts to do this, which I doubt, who would be willing to
step on Stan Lee's phenomenal work?
********************************************************** *****
It didn't occur to me before, but if someone wants to revamp Marvel, they're going to need 2 things.
1) the best creators working in the indsutry today bringing their
A-Game. Anything less would be an insult, and not good enough for the
scope of the project. Seriously, if you want to put Peter Parker in
high school, the early stories have to be better than EVERY story which
had Peter out of high school .
2) creators willing to "step on" Stan lee's phenomenal work (and the work of later creators.)
I'm not sure if there are enough great creators willing to do that.
Well, that's really no different from JB's work on Chapter One or Doom
Patrol. There were those who thought by doing so, JB was stepping on
Stan Lee, Arnold Drake, or Grant Morrison. Hey, we all enjoyed CO and
DP, and guess what -- the old Spider-Man and Doom Patrol stories
haven't been ruined in any way.
********************************************************** *********
Chapter One has been pretty much forgotten (it hasn't been
reprinted, and its developments haven't been used in the last few
years) and Doom Patrol was recently cancelled, so I'm not sure if they're the best examples.
Okay, if we're going to reboot the M***** characters with creators
who are with us today, then its JB on FF, Sal Buscema on Hulk, J.R. Jr.
on Spidey, Walt Simonson on Thor, Perez on Avengers, Frank Miller on
Daredevil, Bob Layton on Iron Man...all written by Stan Lee (in the
Mighty Marvel Manner) 'Nuff Said!
But really, do you think all it would take is for a fan of 'old
school' story-telling (providing they can write and/or draw) to say
'nuff is enuff and start to whip M****** into shape? I think it will
continue to be higher-ups saying "go for the most shocking" because
that's what will bring in the younger crowd (they have the most
disposable income). Wish I had that..
People in this forum know that they want their comics to
contain well written stories and excellent artwork. We deserve it!
And I still buy comics I dislike because I have 'em all. What a maroon.
********************************************************** ******************
I'm sure others have made the point before, but you'd have more
disposable income if you stopped buying books you didn't like. Given
the hundreds of books published each month, I'm sure you'll find plenty
of well contained stories with excellent artwork.
Some current recommendations: Spider-Man/ Human Torch (eight-dollar
"digest'). Fell (a darker cop drama. Each issue costs 2 dollars, and
tells a complete story. The Ultimates (although I understand why people
on the forum don't like the book.) Infinite Crisis.Whatever Alan
Moore's working on.
And I do believe Stan Lee's busy enough as it is.
Stepping on? or is it preserving his legacy.
The idea would be to reboot the characters so that they would once more
have the look and feel of what Stan Lee had created.
********************************************************** *********************
Not exactly. One of John Byrne's suggestions was having Peter waking up
back in High School, when he graduated high school in Amazing
Spider-Man #28. Stan Lee himself wrote many great stories with the
character since then, including my favorite Lee-Ditko tale "The Final
Chapter."
Any such reboot would be about getting the most profitable versions of the
character (and If I'm not mistaken John Romita Sr's years on the book
sold better than the Ditko years.)
Edited by Thomas Mets on 27 November 2005 at 7:11pm
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Steve Lyons
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2171
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 9:25pm | IP Logged | 11
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Personally, I'm just glad Marvel has stopped kicking around Spider-Man's corpse. Good-bye Spider-Man. Hello Winky, the Robo-Spider!
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Darren De Vouge
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 December 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 3586
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| Posted: 27 November 2005 at 10:29pm | IP Logged | 12
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Not exactly. One of John Byrne's suggestions was having Peter waking up
back in High School, when he graduated high school in Amazing
Spider-Man #28. Stan Lee himself wrote many great stories with the
character since then, including my favorite Lee-Ditko tale "The Final
Chapter."
*********************
Again, its more to do with just reestablishing the "look and feel" of
the classic SM than trying to calculate some proper point with a
sliderule or a beancounter at which to restart the universe. The object
is to simplify not needlessly complicate all over again.
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Topic Closed)
