One of the things that turned me off in the first Spider-Man movie was that Peter was at highschool when he was bitten and then, tsoooof! adulthood! They were so eager to tell the Gwen story (why on Earth not use Gwen then?) and the college stuff that they just jumped in time. That looked way to rushed for me and totally unnecessary as it ruined the movie's rhythm.

In Superman the movie the jump was there as well, the difference being that Clark was shown being taught by Jor-El in the time, while Spider-Man simply became a college student. Also, Superman is supposed to be an adult, Spider-Man could have easily been a teenager (as Stan and Steve showed us).

Andrew W. Farago wrote: How the heck is it idiotic for kids to buy the comic they prefer reading, whether Rob likes it or not?

Didn't say that.  You tried really hard and, congratulations, succeeded in totally missing the point.  I called Rob's sentiment idiotic.  I did not, in any way, call it idiotic for kids to buy what they like to read.  FWIW, my experience has been that USM is mainly being bought by the same aging fan that buys the regular title, not snatched up by a ton of kids.

Which is a sentiment I didn;t even make.

Andrew, i think, said "Gee I wish House of M had ended with a teenaged Peter Parker waking up in Queens."

and I said, "Well if you check out Ultimate Spider-man..."

I never said that kids should check out Ultimate Spider-man, cause my whole point is that when i was a kid, i wasn;t turned off by a married, but still young, Spider-man.

That might have been true when Spider-man was a TV star, back in Amazing Fantasy #15, but "With great power comes great responsibility" through all of that right out the window.  If we look at how Lee and Ditko followed that ending up in Amazing Spider-man #1, we see that Peter can no longer earn money as Spider-man, plus he is already harrassed by the media.  Hardly the form of escape one would hope for.

**********************************************************

Those problems are solely because he's Spider-Man. As the old joke goes, "Doc, it hurts when I do this!" "Well, don't do that!"

Peter could support Aunt May and himself through normal means (and it wouldn't have to involve dropping out of school as he suggests in an early issue -- a guy smart enough to invent webshooters doesn't have to resort to becoming a short order cook). Anything would be more responsible than risking his life as Spider-Man -- if he dies, Aunt May has no possible means of support. That's the other thing: He fears what would happen if Aunt May learns he's Spider-Man (the fatal shock that would kill her) but doesn't really fear (or at least doesn't consider) what would happen if he's *killed* as Spider-Man. The implication is that he's more afraid of his aunt's disapproval than what the "shock" of learning the truth might do.

I think people tend to misinterpret "with great power comes great responsibility." That "great power" can also be the "freedom" of adulthood. It's worth noting that Peter didn't really have to break a sweat to stop the burglar who killed Uncle Ben -- he could have tripped him or something -- anything within normal human strength. The lesson was to be a decent human being -- not just being a superhero.

**********************************************************

If that's not enough, saying that fighting them villains was an escape contradicts the whole "With great power comes great responsibility" mantra.  Peter doesn't go off fighting super-villains because he wants to, but because he feels obligated. 

*************************************************

Check out the early Lee/Ditko comics. There's far less obligation and far more thrill-seeking. He's actually excited to hear about Doctor Octopus because catching normal crooks has become too easy.

You quote the last line of AF #15 but I've often viewed that as the movie that spawns a TV series. The movie might end with some sort of character resolution but the TV series has to backpedal a little in order to last a few years. Even if you discount that theory and believe AF #15 moves seamlessly into AS #1, it's demonstrably false that Peter realizes his lesson and becomes a superhero to help people -- kind of like Batman or Superman. He still tries to make money as Spider-Man and fails because of Jameson. He tries to join the FF for money. He tries to save Jameson's son for public adoration, and so on.

Keep in mind: Uncle Ben didn't die because Peter wasn't stopping criminals as Spider-Man. He died because Peter was an irresponsible jerk. You or I could have done the right thing in that situation and it doesn't mean we have to go out fighting crime every night.

*********************************************************

 If anything, the concept behind the Spider-man stories since Amazing Spider-man #1 has been the often failed ability to be both Spider-man and Peter Parker, and examples of that have already been mentioned in this thread.

***********************************************************

The great Ditko shot of the spectral Spider-Man pushing Betty and Peter apart does not read to me as Peter's responsibilities as Spider-Man keeping him from having a normal life but that his "addiction" to thrill-seeking, to being Spider-Man keeping him from being true to Peter Parker. I think too many people read it in the former sense, which is a mistake.

********************************************

So sure, Peter liked to go swinging on his web from time to time in order to clear his head, which still remains true today.  One can also say his alter ego has helped Peter's confidence, making him less of an outcast.  But fighting super-villains was never an escape, and never really a free choice.

******************************************

That's not the case in those original, classic Spider-Man stories.

or when several issues have been devoted to nothing but the breakup, getting back together and eventual breakup again of Peter and MJ.

***

Do you think (asking, not telling) that this is appealing to (potential, mythical) girl readers?  Not to stereotype.

I mean, I;m someone who has always found Peter Parker as fun to read about as Spider-man.  But I got frustrated by pages with dialogue of Pete and MJ repeating each other's words.

It probably does read better as a trade.  On a monthly basis, while the stories and art were good, I just found not enough to happen in the book on an issue to issue basis. And I didn;t really need the book anyway.

I haven't read it on any regular basis since around when Carnage was introduced. 

Rob Hewitt wrote: Not sure why the hostility Matt.

Calling bullshit isn't hostile, Rob.  It's in reaction to what I find to be utterly untrue:

Rob Hewitt wrote: "Gee, I'm a dork and my life is in the toilet. Things certainly would be cooler if I had neat powers." That has never been any Spider-man I know. Maybe the first half of Amazing Fantasy Fifteen... He's never been about "Wahoo, I have powers great."

None of the above is true.  You have said several times that you read MARVEL TALES as a kid and also that you got ASM MASTERWORKS, so I find it incredibly hard to believe that after reading those, you can write the above.  Quite frankly, that is the Spider-Man I know and not some guy angry about being Spider-Man because it screws up his personal life.

It's true, it was in response to me wishing the MU Spider-Man could be "reset" to being a teenager that Rob suggested I read Ultimate Spider-Man (which I do, though I'd readily admit that it isn't perfect and doesn't seem to "get" Peter Parker).

And I agree wholeheartedly that making Spider-Man an Avenger is a fanboy wet dream, not something that would or should ever happen to Stan Lee's outcast hero. (Although the Avengers *did* include known criminals/mutant terrorists Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch after the originals disbanded, so why they'd keep Spider-Man out...)

The MU killed off Spider-Man a long, long time ago. RIP, Spidey.

I was wary of Spider-man in the Avengers, although I think JMS has handled it well (less well then Bendis has handled Spider-man in the Avengers book itself).  I like how he feels a bit overwhelmed by it all, and that he doesn't really belong fully. He still holds a lot back. 

Jarvis and Aunt May's burgeoning relationship is interesting.

MJ has been written well and her reactions to everything seem right.   

I am not thrilled that everyone knows Peter's secret ID although that has been going on for awhile.  Bendis (again) did that in some Daredevil stories with Luke Cage and Iron Fist and also did it in Secret Wars with Captain America and whoever else was there.  I can't even remember. Plus in House of M #8 too. Plus someone had X-man know it. And the Torch knows too-assuming Spider-man/Human Torch is in continuity. This might work in the Ultimate Universe but not so much the Marvel Universe.

New Avengers has been a lot better than I thought it would be, though Bendis still does all build up to the fight, and does a good aftermath, but the fight itself fizzles. Since the team STILL isn't constituted fully, it is hard to say.