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Topic: "Growth and Change" (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 07 November 2005 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 1  

Stephane Garrellie: a good exemple is Miller's DD in Born Again: Matt become more mature, but he doesn't ages.

***

That is a good example in the sense that "growth" can be a hell of a destructive thing -- how long was DD on life-support after that story?  Until Bendis came along and did a remake which left DD in even worse shape.  Here "growth" would be the wrong term since the effect is more like atrophy.
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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 07 November 2005 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 2  

Superman Thinks Using Planes Is Dumb

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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 07 November 2005 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 3  

Mark: Daredevil under Ann Nocenti and John Romita Jr was wonderful and is my other favorite with Born Again.
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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 07 November 2005 at 11:10am | IP Logged | 4  

Seething Thing Use Punchingball Improved Daily
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 07 November 2005 at 11:14am | IP Logged | 5  

Ummm...  Please stop.
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Rob Hewitt
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Posted: 07 November 2005 at 11:14am | IP Logged | 6  

But... but... if he remains in his late twenties (or early thirties) then where is the all-important "change" that pro-agers crave?  Won't he need to continue to age for this to be achieved?

**

That has not been my argument.  Look, I didn;t ask Peter Parker to age with me. He had already aged by the time I started reading. He existed simultaneously at different ages

-Marvel Masterowrks-which I bought-Lee/Ditko 15-19 or so

-Marvel Tales-varied, often his college or graduate school years

-Regular books-young man early to mid twenties, who married less than a year after I started reading. and these books were constantly referencing the past anyway.  He sobbed over Gwen as if it hadn't happened that long ago.

So I can handle different ages and different stories set in different times, as was presented to me.  I accept it as it was.

Spider-man to me was always young-but young for me even as a kid included 20s.

Spider-man was more about "the superhero who could be you" i.e. had regular problems, to me.

I related a lot to Peter Parker and still do. He is my favorite character. Even though at age 28, I have (in my reckoning anyway) passed him in age.

Time in comics has always been flexible to me anyway. That is why there could be a Christmas isse every year, and why some characters might age and other stay the same.  Heck, my favorite TV shows did that all the time-Family Ties and Growing Pains had infants go the next year into age 4 or 5, without any jump in time or characters aging other than the babies. Linus got closer in age to Charlie Brown even though Charlie didn't really age.



Edited by Rob Hewitt on 07 November 2005 at 11:17am
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 07 November 2005 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 7  

Stephane Garrelie:  Mark: Daredevil under Ann Nocenti and John Romita Jr was wonderful and is my other favorite with Born Again.

***

Stephane, that was over 15 years ago.  Without getting into a dispute of taste, since I don't like those issues personally, do you really think the character Daredevil was more viable because of the growth introduced by "Born Again?" 



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Stéphane Garrelie
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Posted: 07 November 2005 at 11:27am | IP Logged | 8  

I think that for this 2 runs the character was better. after that.... that's another story.

Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 07 November 2005 at 11:27am
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Kurt Evans
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Posted: 07 November 2005 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 9  

Lately, thanks to the Toronto Public Library, I've been reading Essential Spider-Man, starting with volume 2. 

First, I'm surprised by how much I like Ditko's art.  If I owned these comics, I would probably practice by mimicing his style. 

Second, as a 26-year-old reader, I've found myself most drawn to the Trials and Tribulations of Peter Parker, rather than to the Adventures of the Amazing Spider-Man.  It's not that I dislike the fighting scenes, especially since the way they go perfectly characterizes Peter Parker, but I am most enjoying the horrors of Peter's personal life.

However, I get the feeling that if I was half my age (wow, was 13 really half a life-time ago!?), I would probably be more drawn to the wise-cracking fight scenes.

I don't want to stereotype teenagers as being drawn more to the well-drawn fight scenes, but I do get the feeling that they buy comics more for the action than the drama.  In that regard, I don't think they'd be upset with an older Peter Parker, even if they couldn't relate to him as much (but who wouldn't want to be married to a busty red-headed super model?!)  But regardless of that, I agree that Peter should've stayed younger.  However, I don't think his character is ruined just because he didn't.

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Eran Aviani
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Posted: 07 November 2005 at 12:01pm | IP Logged | 10  

I'm really NOT liking the term pro-agers, implying that the people arguing against the "no aging whatsoever" opinion would like the characters to steadily age over time.

Characters have aged at times and remained unchanged at times and in both cases it has been ok.  The idea that Peter graduated from high school in issue X and got married in issue Y, and therefore should be a senior citizen by issue Z is absurd!  Trying to form any kind of connection between real time and comics time is absurd!  And saying that Spider-man should have remained 16 is like saying that there are only about 1-2 dozen good Spidey comics out there and all the rest should never have been published.  Again, absurd!

The point originally made was quite extreme, and people here are implying that the counter arguement is just as extreme, when it's not.  Read what people are saying and take a moment to think about it before reiterating the same silly, "oh, so you'd like to see Spider-man reach forty" remarks.  It makes for a very unpleasant discussion.  I always enjoy a good discussion, and don't expect anyone to agree with my personal views, but this is starting to feel like a who's-shouting-loudest situation.

And finally I would re-post something Flavio said:

"I was going to write about how when I first "met" Peter Parker he was already in college, blah,blah,blah...but, my mind shifted back to when I was twelve, and I realized the problem is that back THEN the focus of the stories was in the FIGHTS, the POWERS, the ACTION."

Right on!

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John Mietus
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Posted: 07 November 2005 at 12:17pm | IP Logged | 11  

I would just like to take a moment and point out that as far as I understand
it, M***** considers Peter Parker to presently be in his early 30s.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 November 2005 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 12  

M***** considers Peter Parker to presently be in his
early 30s.

******


Which would make Reed Richards and Ben Grim
deep in their 50s.
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