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Darragh Greene Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 1812
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 1
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I think Wikipedia is symptomatic of the contemporary malaise of general relativism and radical cognitive relativism in the West (themselves the products of cultural exhaustion and apathy if not despair), and so Todd is certainly right about that. When it comes to morals, I still say Todd is right. When it comes to ethics and aesthetics, on the other hand, matters become more complex.
Edited by Darragh Greene on 22 September 2005 at 10:51am
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Jeremy Nichols Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 634
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 2
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Oh that topic, Darragh, I don't think you should have to listen to
me or not. I have no authority but for my own mind, and do not
make any claims that it is 100% right. It's just how I see it.
Today. At 12:55 pm. Anyone can take it or leave it, or even
choose to ignore it altogether.
However, were the moral absolutists to impose their will on me
and mine, such as making it illegal to be anything other than
Christian, reinstigating segregation, or requiring everyone to
have at least one Pat Boone album, then I would draw the line
and impose back a little.
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Jeremy Nichols Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 634
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 11:01am | IP Logged | 3
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The Wikipedia mess is a mess because it wasn't thought
through. It's something that presents itself as fact but does not
appear to care much for verification of fact. Can this be
shouldered on relativism? Does one cry for the execution of all
of Ford's descendents when their loved ones die in a car
wreck? Relativism has led to great equality, among other things
in this world, but you would throw it out for the ignorant
application of it to non-relativist devices, such as an
encyclopedia. That is the creators of wikipedia's fault, not
relativism's.
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Darragh Greene Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 1812
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 4
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Ah, your second paragraph broaches an important consideration for anyone who believes in the possibilty of discovering a moral order, and that is whether to bring it into the political order too. Politics concerns the art of governance, but such governance need not necessarily regulate every single aspect of the citizen's behaviour, only those things necessary for people to live together in a safe, healthy and free environment....
Stop. I just realised, thinking about this, one could write a book. Well, I'm already writing one book, that is, my thesis, so I haven't the time to write another. Instead I'm going to get some dinner!
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Jeremy Nichols Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 634
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 11:27am | IP Logged | 5
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Yeah, I don't blame you. This is a lot more effort than it's worth,
isn't it? Have a nice dinner, man. And have a Guinness for me,
if you drink.
Besides, we're most agreed on the main point -- Wikipedia is
worthless as a datasource, given its nature.
Edited by Jeremy Nichols on 22 September 2005 at 11:29am
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Todd Hembrough Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 4172
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 6
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Everything I know about moral relativism I learned from the moral relativism website in the Wikipedia!
Now parse that for accuracy!!
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Todd Hembrough Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 4172
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 11:46am | IP Logged | 7
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Jeremy spoke, and said...
From an absolute morality view, I could not say there
was anything wrong with cutting off clitori in young girls in
Africa, or the Holocaust, or anything, because I do not believe
there is any absolute right or wrong. From a personal view,
though, I can condemn that, because it does not fit my personal
interpretations of right and wrong.
-----------
This is where you and I apparently differ. I can say that it is
absolutely wrong to clitorectomize girls, execute women for going to
school, enslave people, or attempt to exterminate entire
cultures/races.
I say that moral relativists who view these offenses through the lens
of local custom and culture are depraved. Those who make excuses
or rationalize such behavior are abhorrent.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 35945
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 11:49am | IP Logged | 8
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As someone who is, at this moment, sitting home fighting pneumonia, I gotta say that I really appreciate the discourse here in this thread. Very interesting debate. The only thing I can add is that everyone here still understands that Tishman is the smartest, most intelligent person posting on this topic, right?
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John Mietus Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 9704
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 9
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Does he still post in this topic?
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Ian Evans Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 September 2004 Posts: 2433
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 10
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This whole thread gives me the strongest feeling of deja vu...
Or have I said that already?
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Todd Hembrough Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 4172
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 11
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I know that he is smarter than Me, Darragh and Brian put together!
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Joe Mayer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 January 2005 Posts: 1398
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Posted: 22 September 2005 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 12
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Besides, we're most agreed on the main point -- Wikipedia is worthless as a datasource, given its nature. *****
I understand that there is a likelyhood of inacuracies in Wikipedia and will certainly concede that. I don't feel that stating its "worthess as a datasourse" is fair. Collecting data to form information is something that individuals seem to take too lightly, but I can't blame Wikipedia for that. Wikipedia is meant to be a tool, but who uses one single tool to get any job done? Would you fix a car with nothing more than a screwdrive? If you are collecting information, would you expect to find all the answers in a single website? Growing up, I was taught in school that in order to write a paper, I had to have several sources researched and cited. People need to realize they have a responsibility when collecting information, and that is to not blindly follow one single path, those that don't become the datasource that is worthless.
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