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Mike Tishman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 July 2005
Posts: 229
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 4:51pm | IP Logged | 1
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Joe Zhang wrote:
Sure, but what's the point of a future thriving American
comics industry when it will be published out of Japan? How will John
Byrne, Steve Lieber and all such great talents fit in? |
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They might not, sadly enough.
I think we have to ask ourselves "What exactly do we want to survive from
the American comics industry?"
Is it the cast of characters (Spider-Man, Superman, etc)? They seem to be
doing well, as movies, toys, and animated TV shows.
Is it the comics medium itself as an artform? That seems to be doing
better than it has in a while, in the form of manga.
What about the careers of specific creators? Hmm, well, that seems to be
trickier. Some of the younger generation of writers seem to be
diversifying into videogames (which are, in many ways, the new comic
books), screenwriting, etc. But older writers, and pencillers of all ages
(not to mention inkers, colorists...) ... I honestly don't know. I think
there's at least a couple of decades left of catering to the existing
audience, and that should give JB and others time to finish out their
careers, at least.
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Rob Hewitt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10182
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 4:52pm | IP Logged | 2
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How many books is Marvel/DC publishing now as opposed to say 1989. I wonder because while sales per book are definitely down, there seems to be more titles.
Edited by Rob Hewitt on 28 August 2005 at 4:54pm
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 4:52pm | IP Logged | 3
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I guess the pros will just have to shift to working in the Japanese model, Joe,
except made in the USA. Gil Kane and Archie Goodwin attempted something
similar over 30 years ago with an amazing sci-fi/fantasy series of books
called Blackmark, but it was too ahead of its time and got canned after only
two books were produced.
The environment today, however, is proving to be much different. Whether
the major companies will act on this is another question. But I would love to
see a manga-style book with art by the likes of JB or John Romita Jr.
Edited by Eric Kleefeld on 28 August 2005 at 4:54pm
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 5:04pm | IP Logged | 4
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" But older writers, and pencillers of all ages
(not to mention inkers, colorists...) ... I honestly don't know. I think
there's at least a couple of decades left of catering to the existing
audience, and that should give JB and others time to finish out their
careers, at least."
Nothing personal, but that attitude is what I despise most in our present fandom.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 5:06pm | IP Logged | 5
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"
I guess the pros will just have to shift to working in the Japanese model, Joe,
except made in the USA."
The Japanese will control the market, and give jobs to their own starving artists, Eric.
It's astounding to me that pros would look at the success of Manga as
positive thing. Imagine GM or Ford in the 80's saying " Hey, the
Japanese are eating our lunch. Hooray ! "
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 6
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I didn't say they'd work for Japanese companies, Joe. Read. I said they
would work in the Japanese model at American publishers. Just look at the
success of Bone being sold in novel-sized books through Scholastic as an
example.
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Rob Hewitt
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 11 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10182
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | 7
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What does this Manga stuff sell anyway? What percentage of kids are reading it?
Why won't it be a fad like GI Joe or TMNT or Smurfs or Image or Transformers, He-man, etc, when this generation grows up/gets tired of it, and their younger brothers and sisters look for their own things, as I did and then my sister and brother?
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 5:12pm | IP Logged | 8
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Bone is not based on the "Japanese Model" .
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Eric Kleefeld
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Location: United States
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 9
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I mean the distribution model, not the art model. Bone is selling in
bookstores in a certain format and aimed precisely for the right
demographic. That's a lot closer to what the Japanese distributors in this
country do than it is to DC and Marvel.
Why not have comics, whether for young or old or all ages, done in that
model but with American-style art?
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Steve Lieber
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 July 2004
Posts: 295
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 5:19pm | IP Logged | 10
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Hey Joe:
Your question asssumes that comics is a zero-sum game. I don't think it
is. More people reading manga doesn't equal fewer people reading
American comics. It just means a bigger market overall. Thanks to the
new markets, of which manga readers are only one, lots of new people
are thinking of comics as just another good entertainment option. It's
our job to produce work that they'll like as much as manga, or Maus or
Calvin and Hobbes. Some creators will find it easy to sell their work
to the new readers. Jeff Smith and Wendy Pini, for instance, are going
to sell books by the boatload. . Others, like Jay Hosler, might keep
their day job but still produce great comics for the new readers at a
slower pace. The comic book artists working at Scholastic are
going to earn a good
living doing comics. DC's Warner books division is more profitable than
ever.
And I can't speak for JB but my biggest audience to date was on
something published outside the direct market, and my most lucrative
comics work was a creator-owned graphic novel at a small publisher
that's been optioned a couple of times. I'm not worried, and I'm
neither as good or as fast as JB. There are plenty of possibilities
out there beyond DC and Marvel.
Edited by Steve Lieber on 28 August 2005 at 5:21pm
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Mike Tishman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 July 2005
Posts: 229
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | 11
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Joe Zhang wrote:
Nothing personal, but that attitude is what I despise
most in our present fandom. |
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I'm sorry, I wasn't meaning to be offensive. I was just facing facts. I want
American comics creators to get jobs working on projects they love which
are wildly financially successful, but as my grandfather used to say, I also
want a donkey in my back yard that shits money, and I'm not likely to get
that, either.
I just don't see what the point is in getting outraged at change, even
when it's a change that we don't like. We've got to look at these things
realistically, and see what the best realistic outcome is. To do that, we
have to look at our priorities critically and figure out what it is that we
want, and how much we want it.
Joe Zhang wrote:
The Japanese will control the market, and give jobs to
their own starving artists, Eric. |
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That's not entirely true. There's a whole crop of American artists working
for Tokyopop right now, and that's not even counting the possibility of
American manga-style studios starting up, or the Big Two getting into the
game.
Joe Zhang wrote:
It's astounding to me that pros would look at the
success of Manga as positive thing. Imagine GM or Ford in the 80's saying
" Hey, the Japanese are eating our lunch. Hooray ! " |
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That's because pros aren't analogous to GM or Ford. Pros are analogous
to welders or engineers or other people working on a for-hire basis for
GM or Ford. If you have a job welding doors on cars, it doesn't really
matter if the cars are GMs or Toyotas, because you've got a job either way
as long as there's a market for cars in general.
Comics creators have to be willing to look at the big picture, and not see
their own fortunes as tied to those of the Big Two. What's good for DC is
not necessarily good for its artists, and what's bad for DC isn't necessarily
bad for its artists.
The rise of manga is good for pros because it means kids are reading
comics. It's not good for Marvel or DC, because they aren't reading
their comics, but that's not the same thing.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 28 August 2005 at 5:29pm | IP Logged | 12
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"
Your question asssumes that comics is a zero-sum game."
You would really have to ask the Japanese publishers what kind of game they think it is about.
Is your graphic novel audience representational of the general
audience, or are they just us guys who grew up on American comics? When
the generation of young fans of Manga grow up, will they seek adult
fare that you produce or that which Japanese artists will offer?
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Topic Closed)
