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F. Ron Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1289
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 9:41pm | IP Logged | 1
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John even fully quoted you still slag a segment of comics readers (not that
I agree with your fallacious description) because they apparently don't
share your appreciation of a particular genre. I wonder what you might
have to say about the readers of Archie or Donald Duck who wouldn't be
caught dead with a copy of "Insert Title of Mainstream Book Here".
Edited by F. Ron Miller on 27 August 2005 at 9:50pm
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John Mietus
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 9:57pm | IP Logged | 2
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That's not what I was saying (or trying to say, anyway), but re-reading
what I wrote, I see how you came to that conclusion. I was referring to
those who only read examples of the medium that they think is "high art"
and therefore refer to said examples as "graphic novels" rather than just
recognizing the entire medium as an artform, and that like all artforms
there is "high art" and popular drivel and everything in between -- the
entirety of which I happen to love. You know, the people who have to
make excuses for reading comics.
In other words, in pointing out the snobs I came across as one myself,
which was not my intent, and for that I apologize.
Edited by John Mietus on 27 August 2005 at 9:58pm
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Steve Horton
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 10:17pm | IP Logged | 3
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Back to the original topic:
according to some sources, the comics industry isn't in bad shape and has actually been in a turnaround since 2000:
http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=42&view=topic& amp;forumid=16&postid=2590
and
http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=42&view=topic& amp;forumid=16&postid=2278
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Joe Smith
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 10:26pm | IP Logged | 4
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Very intelligent thread, here.
you guys should be proud,
it makes me proud to be a JBF'er.
I had the same discussion with my comic dealer thru email
Thursday. We are still going back & forth on it.
Worth discussing.
Good for us.
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John Mietus
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 10:26pm | IP Logged | 5
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Interesting. Man, I hope this is more than just a short-term trend. As
much as I've been a doomsayer, I would like nothing more than to be
proven wrong.
I spoke to my LCS owner yesterday about this and asked him how his
sales have been. Interestingly, his preorders on the number of books sold
is virtually identical to the volume of units sold twenty years ago. What he
attributed this to, though, was the customers he's picked up due to the
large number of old, established comic shops in our general area (like,
within a 200 mile radius) which have closed shop. Overall, he feels that,
while he's making as much as he ever did, he did say that he hardly ever
sees children buying comics anymore, that he rarely gets new people in
unless another "nearby" shop goes out of business, and that the majority
of his sales are in gaming supplies.
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F. Ron Miller
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Posts: 1289
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | 6
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I wonder who reads a comic because they consider it art? As opposed to
someone who reads a comic because they like it and it appeals to them.
In the broadest of terms I sincerely believe that a majority of people
would agree that comics is an art form. I think that was decided a long
time ago. (I recall the "High and Low" exhibit at the Museum of Modern
art years back and admiring the cartoons of Picasso hung side-by-side
with Krazy Kat.) Contemporary comics? One man's trash is another man's
treasure. Those who make excuses for their choice of reading material
are probably insecure to begin with and comics is but one of the many
choices in their lives they feel compelled to "explain".
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F. Ron Miller
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 10:42pm | IP Logged | 7
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Children not stepping into a comics shop may be the product--and
rightfully so--of parental supervision. The spinner rack at Barnes and
Noble on a Saturday afternoon acquits itself respectfully.
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John Mietus
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 10:56pm | IP Logged | 8
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In my experience, it's often art students who have been taught that
commercial illustration isn't "art" and who are, therefore, embarrassed by
their enjoyment of something their instructors have told them is
commercial tripe. There is still, unfortunately, that attitude against
comics in academia.
Unless, of course, it's to be considered "kitsch," or "pop art," a la
Lichtenstein -- in which case it's considered passé.
Edited by John Mietus on 27 August 2005 at 10:57pm
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F. Ron Miller
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 11:05pm | IP Logged | 9
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Commercial illustration isn't necessarily art. It's commercial illustration. If,
over time, a particular illustrator demonstrates a body of work with
qualities that transcend it's subject matter and humble origins, perhaps it
becomes art. But out the gate? It's a commissioned work with a mandate
to sell a product. Comics aren't so different really.
Edited by F. Ron Miller on 27 August 2005 at 11:06pm
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John Mietus
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 11:11pm | IP Logged | 10
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Wouldn't you consider comics to be an aspect (or subset) of commercial
illustration? After all, it's illustration work done with commercial intent --
certainly work-for-hire or freelance comics are. Product is being
produced with the intention of commercial gain in a mass market.
[edited to add] And that's not to say that all commercial illustration is or
isn't art, nor is that to say that because comic art is commercial
illustration that diminishes its artistic merit. I believe there can be artistic
merit in any illustrative endeavor, commercial or otherwise.
Edited by John Mietus on 27 August 2005 at 11:17pm
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Troy Nunis
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | 11
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I hate all these Art/Illustrations debates -- Illustration is a subset of Art -- if it uses artistic principles, artistic skills, artistic vision and creativity - it's art. the Sistine Chapel was "Work for Hire" and MOST consider it art. Comics are, by and large, an Entertainment field, in which there are commercial considerations beyond which, artists have room (if they have the desire) to express artistically.
fixed (hopefully) the font size
Edited by Troy Nunis on 27 August 2005 at 11:20pm
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John Mietus
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| Posted: 27 August 2005 at 11:27pm | IP Logged | 12
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I agree completely -- I'm bothered that there are people who dismiss
commercial work and illustrators who do commercial works as "sell-outs."
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Topic Closed)
