Art form, yes.  But look at the history of comic books.  They were never intended to be fine art.  They were, and still are, just pictures to illustrate a story.

And comparing Rob Liefeld and Charles Schulz, their art really isn't that different.  Both have 2 basic layouts.  Leifeld has jumping towards the camera and close-up grimacing, while Schulz has a face on and a full side view.  Also neither shows a very realistic human body.

That last paragraph was tongue-in-cheek, in case anyone is wondering...

How many kids do read super heroes in the US?

But I could ask "Are current superheroes for kids, too?"

Or: "Would you make read certain current comics to your sons?"

I'm afraid of the answers.

" Maybe I'm an ignoramus too, but I don't know a single person who gets "free" tv. Does anyone on this board? "

Well I could get NBC for free as it has a broadcast station in my area.  So the example of "Friends" being free would be true in my case.

But yes, generally we pay for TV - technically.  But that $65 buys about 120 regular channels and 10 in high definition.  Thats quite a lot of entertainment and most kids watch TV for "free" because their parents pay the bill.  But the folks aren't buying comics and leaving them around the house so the kids will have to shell out cash for comics.  So yeah, I'd say TV and internet run neck and neck for the title of "most entertainment for dollar value", especially for kids who don't pay out of their own pocket for either of those services.

John Mietus wrote: It's not about the variety, it's about the dwindling readership and subsequent decrease in sales. The number of sales of a book that was on the chopping block twenty-five to thirty years ago was a solid seller ten- fifteen years ago, and now is considered a hit. What does that tell you?

That comics are following the same trend as TV. Shows which are considered huge hits today bring in numbers which would have gotten shows in prior eras cancelled.

We no longer live in a mass market culture. We live in a niche market culture. The sales numbers of yesteryear are never, ever coming back because that kind of broad appeal is impossible in a world with this degree of media fragmentation. The audience is more heterogenous and more demanding. They want things that cater specifically to their niche tastes, and if you don't provide it to them, someone else will.

The comics industry, like virtually all other branches of the media, is a niche industry. It shouldn't pretend it can be anything else. Rather, it should look at becoming a stronger, healthier niche.

Right now, the problem is not that it's a niche, but that it's in a bad niche. The audience is aging, and new customers aren't able to get in because of the direct sales system. Superheroes dominate too much of the market, and as a result there's not enough diversity in genre.

Eric Kleefeld wrote: The manga format is the way to go in the American market. I feel confident in saying this because I don't feel I'm describing some future trend, but simply the present one.

Agreed. People are talking about this like there isn't a successful comics market in the US to emulate, but there is. Just look at what Tokyopop's doing and work from there.

To whit: digest-size books featuring new (to American audiences, anyway) characters, sold through bookstores. Perhaps promoted through free online webcomics or as tie-ins with cartoons or toys. Digest-sized books are convenient and reasonably priced.

Another possibility is something like an anthology magazine, that runs comics along with pop culture magazine content: music reviews, articles on videogames, celebrity interviews, etc. The magazine format would get it into bookstores and newsstands, the non-comics content would draw in new readers, advertising in the magazine would subsidize the production expenses, and then the comics could be collected in digests or TPBs.

Spinner racks in Wal-Mart might look promising, but they're not. Even if you were to downgrade the paper stock, monthly comics would still be overpriced. Also, Wal-Mart's content restrictions would kill any moves towards diversity, and leave the books too tepid to appeal to young people. You'd end up with the same problem the music industry has now: no one wants to buy the new 50 Cent CD at Wal-Mart, because it's overpriced and they only have the "clean" version. Why spend too much for the neutered version when you can go online and download the "dirty" version for free, along with a bunch of other stuff Wal-Mart would never carry?

Spinner racks at Wal-Mart are probably the best option for monthlies, but they're still not that good. Consequently, I don't think the monthly comic as a format has much of a future.

Joe Zhang wrote: Like they say , the grass looks always looks greener on the other side. I've been told that Japanese Manga studios face horrendous challenges trying to survive.

Every company faces horrendous challenges trying to survive these days. It's a competitive world. Also, while individual manga studios may have trouble surviving, the industry as a whole is flourishing with large, healthy readership. Hell, the manga industry is doing better in the US than the domestic comics industry.

Trevor Giberson wrote: Does 50 Cent sings the same lyrics than Marvin Gaye ? If I hook you up with a few good modern soul singers who do it old-school, would you hook me with up the names of a few modern super-hero books that do it the way Stan Lee used to?

I think you're missing his point. What would have been considered "adult" or "edgy" thirty years ago is pretty tame now.
Yes, there are modern soul-singers who sing like Marvin Gaye, but they don't appeal to young audiences the way someone like 50 Cent does. They appeal to older aficionados in a niche market - which is basically what fans like us have become.

Let's face it: the current roster of superhero characters at the Big Two has been largely untouched in the past thirty years, and most of the people who want to read traditional superhero stories like those from the Silver Age are old and getting older. New media like manga, video games, television cartoons, webcomics, etc. are giving young people what they want and are distributed in ways that allow those young people to get them.

What about the characters we know and love? Many have pointed out that Spider-Man must appeal to something in young people, because the Spider-Man movies are so successful. Likewise the Teen Titans and JLU cartoons. But Peter David recently posted this in his blog, and I think he's got a point:

"I was at a playground yesterday with Caroline. There was a little boy there, seven years old, named Steven. He was talking to other kids about Spider-Man, and what a big Spider-Man fan he was. He was showing off his Spidey sneakers very proudly.

And you wonder why comics are hemorrhaging readers."

I think we need to stop thinking of "the industry" as being primarily in the business of publishing monthly comics. The industry manages a number of pop culture properties, and they should look at them as whole franchises working synergistically, instead of looking at one medium as being the promotional vehicle for another.

I think there need to be a lot of new characters, new genres, new everything, to appeal to young audiences, and that needs to be coupled with a new understanding of existing characters which takes non-comics media seriously.

"Last time I did ACTION COMICS sales were in the
200,000s, and those were considered "normal"
range sales. Now, about one fifth that, and those are
considered "normal" range sales.

Nuff said?"

When JB did Action in 1987 (yes, sorry, it was that long ago), the cover price was $0.75.  Today it's $2.50.  Based on the inflation rate over the last 18 years, the cover price today should have grown from $0.75 to $1.30.  The publishers have done a lot to price themselves out of the market.  Even with our Diamond distribution to comic specialty store system, I bet most of us would buy a lot more comics if the price dropped in half.  Maybe some company like DC should try it for one month.  What titles do you find yourself flipping through at the LHS and then putting back because you're already spending too much?  For me, frequent examples would include Action, Birds of Prey, The Walking Dead, and New Avengers.

Free TV? Yeah - I have rabbit ears. Free TV. Dont watch anything except baseball and occassional documnetary. And "Smallville". lol

That's it.

Im with the guys who say folks cant buy or get into comics if they cant see em at their local drug store or Wal Marts on spinners.  What you have is a rapidly diminishing fanbase with no kids (6-7 years old) entering nto the market because of a) visibility b) cost.  Forget quality of art & story and other fan based stuff.

When I was a kid I bought for a character I liked or a cool cover and it didnt matter who drew Superboy - George Papp or Curt Swan.  We bought Superboy.We rarely knew their names unless it was a Julie Schwartz mag or a Marvel.  We knew the artist as "the guy who darws Superboy all the time".