Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 10 Next >>
Topic: "Spider-Man 2" on Cable (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Rob Hewitt
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 11 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10182
Posted: 06 June 2005 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | 1  

Not that this really matters, but this was one of the highest rated films on rottentomatoes.com.  I believe it was 98% positive or something.  With many, including Roger Ebert, saying it was the best superhero movie ever made.

I've enjoyed movies occasionally with a 25% rating, so you never know.

*Just checked. Although a few weeks after the movie came out it was at 98%, it is now at 93%-perhaps more saw it when it came on dvd.

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Brendan Howard
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar
FAQ Master Supreme

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4943
Posted: 06 June 2005 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | 2  

 John Leach wrote:

I had hoped that, like X-Men 2, I'd enjoy the sequel after despising the first, but Spider-Man 2 sucked eggs.  Crappy story, crappy effects, no logic, bad acting and writing, ugh.  Couldn't even watch it on cable the other night.

When I read a complete dismissal like this, I feel the need to ask what movies you really, really, really liked. Your attitude is so far from the general consensus of mass audiences and critics that I wonder what your barometer might be.



Edited by Brendan Howard on 06 June 2005 at 2:55pm
Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
John Donges
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 204
Posted: 06 June 2005 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | 3  

 Mike O'Brien wrote:

My biggest gripe?  When he lost his webbing, I thought they might make up for the first film, and have him invent web-shooters.  Imagine my dissapointment. 

But he shouldn't have lost his webbing! His web glands inside his arms are the result of a physical change in his anatomy. He has additional organs now. It'd be like his stomach not working too.

Same thing with his wall-crawling. In the comics there's some kind of adhesion force working. But in the first movie, they specifically showed he's got all these barbed micro-hairs growing out of his hands. Again, physical changes. Did they just disappear in an instant? And then reappear again?

*bah*

Back to Top profile | search | www e-mail
 
Wes Wescovich
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1726
Posted: 06 June 2005 at 4:00pm | IP Logged | 4  

My biggest problem with the movie was the "kind, gentle, Otto" that we get to see with his wife.  Granted, we had a downright nasty Norman Osborn in the first one.  But that doesn't mean they needed to show a "softer side" of Doctor Octopus for contrast.  They are villains.  Let them be villainous.  And pure damn evil right to the core. 

Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8120
Posted: 06 June 2005 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | 5  

 Wes Wescovich wrote:
My biggest problem with the movie was the "kind, gentle, Otto" that we get to see with his wife.  Granted, we had a downright nasty Norman Osborn in the first one.  But that doesn't mean they needed to show a "softer side" of Doctor Octopus for contrast.  They are villains.  Let them be villainous.  And pure damn evil right to the core.

I disagree there. Octavius was not a bad guy pre-transformation, even in the comic, unlike Norman Osborn. I had no problem making him a bit of a tragic villain. Though I do draw the line at having him be the true hero of the movie, as I said earlier.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4831
Posted: 06 June 2005 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 6  

Yup, there's plenty to complain about with Spider-Man 2
and i understand JB's feelings toward comicbook-based
films all the more. This film made fun of the genre more
than it praised it. Way to go, Mr. Raimi.

And many thought this sequel was better than the original!!

YIKES!!

-C!
Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Wes Wescovich
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 21 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1726
Posted: 06 June 2005 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | 7  

Octavius was not really developed as good or bad before the "accident".  In his first appearance he was just a seemingly typical, somewhat arrogant scientist.  Quote from ASM #3: 

"Though others fear radiation, I alone am able to make it my servant!" 

Then while recovering in the hospital we get the narrator telling us that his brain has been damaged by the radiation, making him bitter.  I was just bugged by the fact that the screenwriter and director of the movie wasted so much time showing us his warm fuzzy side.  I guess I just don't like tragic villains any more than tragic heroes.  The older I get, the more I like things black and white.  No gray area.  Maybe it's just my reaction to this increasingly PC world we live in.  I find it a bit ironic how the black/white, good/evil thing is a sort of trademark of Ditko's and this is one of his co-creations we are talking about. 

I wish I could remember where I read a text piece/letter by Ditko detailing his beliefs on the subject.  His interviews and commentaries have always been rare, but powerful, nonetheless.  Anybody remember the piece I'm talking about? 



Edited by Wes Wescovich on 06 June 2005 at 4:51pm
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Zaki Hasan
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8105
Posted: 06 June 2005 at 4:49pm | IP Logged | 8  

 Charles Valderrama wrote:
This film made fun of the genre more
than it praised it.


How do you figure?
Back to Top profile | search e-mail
 
Mike Murray
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 530
Posted: 06 June 2005 at 4:56pm | IP Logged | 9  

 Stephen Robinson wrote:
The Final Chapter is considered to have one of the best Spider-Man scenes of all time and we don't see Parker's face. In fact, most of the best Spider-Man scenes show us only Spider-Man's face. I'm not convinced you couldn't make that work on screen.

Which scene is this?

Back to Top profile | search
 
John Byrne
Avatar
Robot Wrangler

Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 102266
Posted: 06 June 2005 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | 10  

Yup, there's plenty to complain about with Spider-Man 2 and i understand JB's feelings toward comicbook-based films all the more. This film made fun of the genre more than it praised it. Way to go, Mr. Raimi.

And many thought this sequel was better than the original!!

*****

Most people -- especially critics -- thought "Superman II" was better than the first, too. I have long thought -- and this would apply to "Spider-Man" and "Spider-Man 2" -- that this was because the first one did something unconscionable in what was "just a comicbook movie" -- it asked that we take it seriously. Civilians have a tough time with that.

Back to Top profile | search | www
 
Jim O'Neill
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2005
Posts: 336
Posted: 06 June 2005 at 5:54pm | IP Logged | 11  

Just saw it myself for the first time this weekend.
This movie begs for a "MST 3K" treatment...

I mean, the office scene where one of Otto's arms comes crashing thru the wall~ a woman nearby screams, turns her back on the action, runs right towards the fourth wall, stops, and then screams right into the camera, her back still to the action.
If something comes smashing thru the north wall of your home, is your reaction going to be to scream, run across the room to the south wall, and then scream right at the wall~?

I took it as a campy, Batman TV show kind of shot, intended to remind people who don't read comic books how silly comics really are.
Why this irritates me so much, when there's so many other false notes in this picture, I don't know.

Maybe it's because in the comics I've read (pick a decade, any decade) when an artist draws a person screaming in horror, that person is always looking directly at whatever's horrifying them~! They don't run an inconsequential distance away and then pause to scream again. Who does that?

Then there's the highly likely coincidence of Doctor Octopus not only receiving funding from the son of the Green Goblin, but also being chums with a pre-Lizardized Curt Connors.

Or M.J. dating John Jameson~ did that ever happen in the books?

But the worst moment of all (currently) has to be when Peter Parker turns his back on the muggers. I foolishly thought that this was going to be the scene where he "gets his confidence back".

As someone has already pointed out, the "real" Spider-Man would never walk away from that situation.
Not with his origin. He turned his back once before and Uncle Ben was murdered. Even with no powers, Pete would still feel a "great responsibility".
He wouldn't turn his back on someone in trouble just because he isn't guaranteed a victory. That's what makes him a hero.


No, I got the feeling that the folks making this film rationalized that if we're willing to believe in guys with spider powers in the first place, then we'll buy into anything.

Of course the best place to mount a micro-chip that keeps the mechanical arms under the control of the wearer is out in the open, right at the top of the "spine".
Of course the chip should be encased in the same kind of plastic that's used for modular phone jacks. Adamantium? That's an X-men thing.
Of course it should light up for no apparent reason (I was immediately reminded of JB's Doctor Bong issue of She-Hulk and the big red Plot Device~!)

Or the fact that seemingly everybody in NY except JJJ knows Spider-Man's true identity by the end of the flick.

For a guy who's so worried about what could happen to his loved ones if his identity became known, who can't get off the dime where Mary Jane's concerned because of this very reason, he sure loves to whip off the ol' mask.

Or the fact that there wasn't one opportunist on that railcar who had a picture phone...

This has gone on a while, sorry about that.
My office computer wouldn't display page two of this thread, so my apologies if I'm repeating other's points as tho' they're my own.

J.O'N.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Kevin Hagerman
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 15 April 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 18034
Posted: 06 June 2005 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | 12  

The Mask Thing should have been dealt with early - as in pre-production.  You either take your chances with a costume change (and the ire you get from people like me) or you accept it as part of the idiom.  How many times can you get the mask off?  How many clever contortions of plot are you willing to go through? (Pumpkin bomb, close range.  It's on fire!  Hmm, maybe Peter Parker can succeed where Spider-Man has failed?)

Why not have your actor learn mime, or dance?  Seriously, you can say a lot with body language - turn off the sound and watch the excrable scene where the Green Goblin lectures a paralyzed Spider-Man in the first movie for a BAD example.

And where's the patter?  My heart soared like a hawk (sorry, I just watched Little Big Man) when Spider-Man said "Here's your change!" in 2.  That's one way to make up for The Mask Thing.  Spider-Man should be slinging jokes faster than Groucho Marx sparring with Bugs Bunny.  We got precious little of that.

 

I loved the Spider-Man movies, but they did not come close to exceeding my expectations.  I knew there would be things I would just have to ignore in order to enjoy them.

 

I much angrier about Sin City joining the Strippers Who Don't Strip phenomenon.  If Meryl Streep wants to play Nancy Callahan, THEN you can keep her clothed.  I'd be hard pressed to find a stripper who couldn't have done as well as Alba did in that movie.

Back to Top profile | search
 

<< Prev Page of 10 Next >>
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login