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Peter Martin
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Joined: 17 March 2008
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Posted: 12 June 2026 at 6:10pm | IP Logged | 1 post reply

The Pope is right. This is a massively serious issue and lawmakers and regulators should be all over this and ensuring AI works for the benefit of all humans not just a handful of folks who are in a position to pull the strings. Instead, they are abdicating their responsiblity and rubbing their hands at the prospect of an AI arms race. We are already seeing despicable things happening in armed conflicts across the globe, where no one seems to want to grasp the nettle and stand up for the civilian populations who are suffering. This pattern will get way way worse if AI starts controlling weaponry. Entry level jobs are already being swallowed by AI to improve the bottom line for those at the top and the asset hoders. The general populace are going to be the ones that suffer in the aggregate and this probably does not end well.

Edited by Peter Martin on 12 June 2026 at 6:13pm
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Evan S. Kurtz
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Posted: 12 June 2026 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | 2 post reply

I'm disappointed I can't find it, but someone posted about this on the forums in the past few months. (My lizard brain thinks it was sometime within the past 3-4 months but I might be wrong.) 

Personally I'm not arguing on behalf of this outlook, because I think it gets semantical, but the general argument stems from observations made by Robert Sapolsky, who observed that all living beings are products comprised entirely of the environments they live in and the DNA they were born with, meaning that when a neuron fires within our brain as a reaction to stimulus, the course of its action is predetermined. 

From Sapolsky's perspective, for free will to be provable, then a neuron would need to fire in response to a stimulus in exactly the same way in a brain that is entirely lacking in the environmental and biological components that as it does in a brain which contains environmental and biological components. 

I wish I could remember the poster who mentioned this or the previous discussion on the topic, but that's my understanding of what Sapolsky argued on behalf of. I know there are numerous scientists and mathematicians who find that to be difficult to dispute, but my general take is that Sapolsky is a scientist who's saying free will can only exist if we have no evidence of why a neuron fires in a specific way, which feels anti-scientific, particularly since this is a test we cannot conduct. 
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Evan S. Kurtz
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Posted: 15 June 2026 at 1:58pm | IP Logged | 3 post reply

To expound on Sapolsky a bit more, the conclusion of his thesis is that, because people lack objective free will (i.e., due to environmental and genetic factors, neurons will fire in their brains in a predetermined, predictable manner), then it's unreasonable to blame the mentally ill for their struggles, as well as those with criminal or anti-social behaviours, because they are quite literally products of their environments and DNA. 

For that reason, we should treat these people far more compassionately and endeavour to provide them with supports to help them develop the necessary skills to adapt to a healthy, productive life. 
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Peter Hicks
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Posted: 15 June 2026 at 3:02pm | IP Logged | 4 post reply

Sapolsky's book Determined has a wonderful section where he talks about a meeting in his office with two students who are doing a project together for one of his courses.   One student does not buy into Sapolsky's theories on predetermination and picks up a stapler from the desk, and he says "You're telling me it's predetermined if I will drop this stapler, or gently place it back on the desk?!" Sapolsky tires not to smile.  Male students will challenge his in this fashion, but women never do.  Students from foreign countries never confront him like this because they feel grateful to be getting a US university education.  Similarly, students who only got to university because of the financial assistance from scholarships do not behave this way either.  In fact middle class students do not challenge him either.   It is only male students from rich families that confront Sapolsky like this.

The predetermination is not whether or not he will drop the stapler or gently put it down.   Predetermination kicked in the moment the rich male student picked up something off the professor's desk to pose the challenge.
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Evan S. Kurtz
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Posted: 15 June 2026 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | 5 post reply

Peter, was it you who brought Sapolsky up in an earlier discussion back in March? I couldn't find the thread, but I remember it was mentioned here.

To reiterate my criticism of his outlook, I think like a lot of modern philosophy it hinges too much on the meaning or value we give to words. I recognize that I am the product of my DNA and environment, and that the origin of a singular thought can be measured (i.e., if you ask me a math problem, we can measure when and where the activity in my brain kicks in as I produce the answer). Therefore I suppose it would be theoretically possible for a sophisticated enough machine to scan my brain as the neurons fire and predict the outcome before I am able to react in real time. My criticism then hinges on the idea that the only way to prove there is no free will is by observing a "lack of evidence" relating to a situational response, which feels contradictory. 
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