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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134303
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| Posted: 25 January 2023 at 2:52pm | IP Logged | 1
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Pope says Homosexuality Not a CrimeGuess I missed the update that expunges Leviticus 20:13.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 16136
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| Posted: 25 January 2023 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | 2
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Doesn't the church believe there was an update around the year zero?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 134303
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| Posted: 25 January 2023 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 3
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Jesus said he came to fulfill the Law, not to change it.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7550
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| Posted: 25 January 2023 at 5:15pm | IP Logged | 4
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I think Pope Francis is reading the tea leaves with respect to Catholicism's declining flock and figures that cutting loose Leviticus (which IIRC is about the only place homosexuality is explicitly condemned) is a worthwhile trade-off.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12897
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| Posted: 25 January 2023 at 8:18pm | IP Logged | 5
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Romans 1:26-27For this reason God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also the men, giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another. Men committed shameless acts with men and received in their own persons the due penalty for their error.
1 Corinthians 6:9–10 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
(No "revilers" either? Oh well!)
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Jim Petersman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 668
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| Posted: 26 January 2023 at 1:18am | IP Logged | 6
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Religious Leader speaking on legal matters for which he has no authority: "It's not a crime."
Religious Leader speaking on religious matters for which some believe he has authority: "It is a sin."
Me: "Anyone running an organization that is known to abuse children and *protect the abusers* should STFU.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 36314
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| Posted: 26 January 2023 at 5:19am | IP Logged | 7
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Sodom and Gomorrah would put the lie to rest re: Leviticus being the only instance in which homosexuality is condemned. I know there are more modern readings of it, but given that the word “sodomy” is derived from the biblical, historical text I find it hard to believe that it’s true that there is just a single instance mentioned in the Bible.
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ron bailey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 October 2016
Location: United States
Posts: 1220
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| Posted: 26 January 2023 at 5:56am | IP Logged | 8
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His more complete quote is, 'homosexuality is not a crime but is a sin".
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Jason Scott
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 August 2012
Location: Scotland
Posts: 1194
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| Posted: 26 January 2023 at 7:43am | IP Logged | 9
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"nor men who practice homosexuality" ------------------------------------------------------------ -------------------------------------
But not women? LOL!
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12897
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| Posted: 26 January 2023 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | 10
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Maybe when the men are done practicing and get really expert at homosexuality, they're fine too?
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14888
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| Posted: 26 January 2023 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 11
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The Catholic Church has many, many issues, but Biblical fundamentalism isn't one of them. Taking the words in the Bible literally with no context is more an Evangelical thing.
Christian apologists and Christian critics can both be guilty of quoting the Bible to argue a point while ignoring the cultural, historical, and linguistic contexts of the original text.
Like if I tried to argue that Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble are clearly lovers because according to the Flintstones theme song, when you are with the Flintstones, "we'll have a gay old time", that would be ridiculous because it ignores that the word "gay" has multiple meanings and that in a themes song for a 60s cartoon, it would be very unlikely that they they are using "gay" to mean homosexual. But that's sort of what's happening when people apply a modern context to the English translation of books written in Hebrew and Greek by ancient Hebrew authors.
For some dry reading of the multiple theories in critical scholarship about the "clobber passages" in Leviticus, here you go:
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Rebecca Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018
Location: Canada
Posts: 4635
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| Posted: 26 January 2023 at 7:38pm | IP Logged | 12
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And cutting down the fig tree that doesn't bear fruit could be read as: if you don't produce offspring you too should be put to the axe. Maybe now when gay couples are 'allowed' to have children and/or adopt there's more in it for the church... saved souls/future parishioners for the collection plate, while requiring celibacy of priests and nuns so their worldly goods go to the church.
All I can say is there is no Pope, or even really big hats, mentioned in the collection of writings we call 'The Bible' (aka thee book) that I've seen. Also nothing about anyone covering faces in the Qur-an.
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