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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1747
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| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 4:39pm | IP Logged | 1
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That is very true. I never thought about it that way consciously, but now that you point it out, how true it rings.
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John Northey
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 09 June 2020
Location: Canada
Posts: 199
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| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 6:04pm | IP Logged | 2
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Interesting change here - recently re-read the Vision/Scarlett Witch mini's (original 2 - just to find hints for the TV series) and saw the Magneto reveal there - he finds out he is their dad in the 80's, well after this, so I'm guessing a few things are different on this world (as would be expected). Maybe he dug more into them right away, or Xavier had information on them that led him to know who they were. Yeah, yeah, I love trying to find tiny holes and solutions for them in stories. Sue me.
As others have said this Magneto is more the Kirby/Lee one than the Claremont one. The most recent page really shows this. This version could cause the '616B' (B for Byrneverse) one to be in deep trouble in a direct battle. Quicksilver's face on the first panel didn't quite look right to me, but given my screw up with Wanda's hair earlier it might just be my old brain being off. As always Jean looks perfect, and I love Magneto's face in the helmet - really get that fear factor that he should always radiate - if he doesn't scare you there is a problem.
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16505
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| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | 3
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Last year, I read EVERY Silver-Age and Bronze-Age appearance of Magneto, as I was going through all the X-Men stories again. This included every guest appearance Magneto made, as I wanted to also follow the chronology of the X-Men's major villains during the same period.
When one reads the comics that featured Magneto before "Uncanny X-Men: #150, it is realllly hard to reconcile the freedom fighter/good guy version of the character. As JB notes, he really was an unrepentant bastard. The closest he came to seeming halfway decent was in the Neal Adams Savage Land issues, and that was all a big ruse!
For my own rationalization of how Magneto could have changed so much and so thoroughly, I figured that something happen when Alpha regressed Magneto to infancy, and while he was under the care of Moira MacTaggert on Muir Island. The catch to that is that there are those later flashback stories that showed Magneto being a swell guy in his youth. Ugh.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 06 February 2021 at 6:21pm
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15992
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| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 7:34pm | IP Logged | 4
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Matt, in which issue, would you say, that the big change first occurs?
First time I met Magneto was in Secret Wars and the 'fighting for my own kind' version was in place, though at least everyone was in no doubt he was a mass murderer.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 5
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The catch to that is that there are those later flashback stories that showed Magneto being a swell guy in his youth. Ugh.••• What form do the flashbacks take, Matt? Whose POV is represented?
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Eric Sofer
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Joined: 31 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 4789
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| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 9:14pm | IP Logged | 6
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A lot of it is perspective, I think. Magneto wants to rule the world... and he wants that world to be ruled by mutants. He has never really lied, I believe - except maybe to himself - but his goal, like Doom's, is nothing less than world domination.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
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| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 9:26pm | IP Logged | 7
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I'm of the opinion that Magneto should *never* have been part of the X-Men. He was a mutant supremacist; if he was in the Holocaust, he took away the lesson that it is better to be the oppressor than the oppressed.
On that basis, he has no common cause with Charles Xavier and no part in his dream of co-existence (though arguably Professor X no longer espouses that goal). He isn't an anti-hero, fighting nobly for mutant survival--he's a mutant Hitler.
Expanding on this, I'm pretty tired of heroes teaming up with their archenemies. Superman has teamed up with Luthor, Batman with the Joker, Spider-Man with Dr. Octopus... honestly, aren't these the people that heroes swore they could NEVER work with? Sheesh.
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16505
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| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 11:16pm | IP Logged | 8
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Peter Martin: "...Matt, in which issue, would you say, that the big change first occurs? ..."
Though Magneto is shown in "Days of Future Past" to be on the side of the X-Men in the future, the first real change begins in "Uncanny X-Men" #150, with Magneto having a change of heart of sorts after nearly killing Kitty Pryde. It's also here that Magneto first mentions having been in a Nazi concentration camp as a child. This issue is where Claremont starts to rehabilitate the character.
There's even a scene where Storm comes upon a sleeping Magneto and thinks, "Why are we enemies? There is much to respect about him-- Almost to admire. What a shame. What a tragic waste."
Keep in mind, Storm and the then "new" X-Men last fought Magneto during JB's run, in the volcano headquarters. And that was only the second time that version of the team had fought him!
JB: "...What form do the flashbacks take, Matt? Whose POV is represented?..."
Sometimes it has been Magneto, but also Charles Xavier. In fact, the first story where Xavier and Magneto are revealed to have been friends and fought Hydra (issue #161) in their younger days was told from Xavier's perspective.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 06 February 2021 at 11:53pm
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 06 February 2021 at 11:24pm | IP Logged | 9
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Eric Sofer: "...He has never really lied, I believe - except maybe to himself..."
Before "Uncanny X-Men" #150, he didn't really have any redeemable qualities. It wasn't a matter of perspective, he was objectively evil. Any honorable and sympathetic qualities about Magneto was a retcon, and there are no signs of such traits in his earliest stories.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 06 February 2021 at 11:54pm
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Sean Sinclair
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Joined: 28 May 2018
Location: United States
Posts: 49
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| Posted: 07 February 2021 at 1:11am | IP Logged | 10
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John Northey wrote:
(...)he finds out he is their dad in the 80's, well after this, so I'm guessing a few things are different on this world (as would be expected). Maybe he dug more into them right away, or Xavier had information on them that led him to know who they were. |
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Couldn't Magneto have figured out the twins' relation to him, given their strong resemblance to him and Magda? He must've at least had his suspicions back when he first recruited them into the Brotherhood.
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Dean Munday
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 July 2019
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 07 February 2021 at 5:35am | IP Logged | 11
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"Couldn't Magneto have figured out the twins' relation to him, given their strong resemblance to him and Magda? He must've at least had his suspicions back when he first recruited them into the Brotherhood."
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Not an uncommon speculation. :-) However comics stories are riven with protagonists 'missing the bleeding obvious' for the purposes of the ongoing narrative! ;-)
Magneto might not have 'known' from the off, but it's not unreasonable that access to Wanda and Pietro's appearances might give him cause to suspect & investigate - which of course he ultimately did.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 07 February 2021 at 6:55am | IP Logged | 12
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 •• That sequence of recuperating Magneto reviewing "memory tapes" has a bit of backstory. Roger Stern (as editor) agreed with my suggestion that Magneto was the father of Wanda and Pietro, and we decided to slip in that scene, not in the plot, as a set-up to be developed later. Chris knew nothing about it until he saw the page. When he asked me why I had included it, I said "I figured a character like Galactus needed a herald." 10,000 JBF Gold Points to the first to correctly source that reference. (Odd that I got Magneto's hair wrong, which somewhat neutralizes the "bit"...)
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