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Leigh DJ Hunt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 February 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1570
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Posted: 28 August 2019 at 5:19am | IP Logged | 1
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As Peter suggests earlier I do suspect foreign influence in both the result and on social media since. Just look at any tweet thread or comments on news websites and try to get your head round the bizarre viewpoints of people actually supporting the potential chaos of No deal. They sound genuinely insane in their pursuit of some ideal of a Britain (or often, an England) that no longer exists. Are there that many stupid and/or xenophobic people out there? Quite possibly but I think they have been manipulated.
It's a really scary time.
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James Woodcock Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 7772
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Posted: 28 August 2019 at 5:39am | IP Logged | 2
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Well, having been in a fair few arguments with people I actually know, and hearing from a few friends who have also had similar experiences, the answer is yes, there really are that many people out there that think we are still the British Empire and leaving the EU will be a return to the glory days.
Without a doubt the Leave campaign used scare mongering and how people could not see Farage for the fascist that he is, even after using Nazi era posters in his campaign is utterly beyond me.
Look, I get that there are people that did not like the EU, for what ever reasons. But the people that back Farage are not sensible people. And I know a fair few people who do back Farage and do not see him as a fascist, even when posters like this are pointed out to them:
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Leigh DJ Hunt Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 February 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 1570
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Posted: 28 August 2019 at 5:44am | IP Logged | 3
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You're probably right James. To be honest over the last couple of years I've avoided having too many IRL debates about the issues. I suspect I have family members who support all of this and I don't really want to fall out with them over it but if it came up, we would.
I did know some fairly intelligent people in my last job who were openly supportive of the likes of Farage but they were a minority.
Not sure where we this will all end now.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133257
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Posted: 28 August 2019 at 5:44am | IP Logged | 4
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Well, having been in a fair few arguments with people I actually know, and hearing from a few friends who have also had similar experiences, the answer is yes, there really are that many people out there that think we are still the British Empire and leaving the EU will be a return to the glory days.••• I’ve used the line before, but Brexit reminds me of a salute to the E-Type Jaguar Jeremy Clarkson did on TOP GEAR. He said it “reminds us of a time when we really were as great as we still think we are.”
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Koroush Ghazi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009 Location: Australia Posts: 1681
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Posted: 28 August 2019 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 5
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Leigh DJ Hunt wrote:
They sound genuinely insane in their pursuit of some ideal of a Britain (or often, an England) that no longer exists. Are there that many stupid and/or xenophobic people out there? |
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Patriotism really is the last refuge of the scoundrel; it gives them something to be falsely proud of, when they have no personal qualities or achievements of their own to boast about. So it's not just the stupid and xenophobic, but the numerous mediocre and banal people among us who revel in resurrecting a former glory they played no part in originally creating.
edit: tamn dypos...
Edited by Koroush Ghazi on 28 August 2019 at 8:11am
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Ronald Joseph Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1784
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Posted: 28 August 2019 at 8:20am | IP Logged | 6
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Patriotism really is the last refuge of the scoundrel; it gives them something to be falsely proud of, when they have no personal qualities or achievements of their own to boast about. So it's not just the stupid and xenophobic, but the numerous mediocre and banal people among us who revel in resurrecting a former glory they played no part in originally creating.
I don't think I've wished for a like or love button on the JBF more than I did after reading this.
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Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4505
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Posted: 28 August 2019 at 8:51am | IP Logged | 7
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Koroush knows his stuff. It is a great quote and it has maintained its relevance for centuries.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15935
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Posted: 28 August 2019 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 8
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In some of the Brexit debates, invariably the bloody wars come up. We won the Great War though, dint we? Yes, we did. What does that have to do with leaving the EU?
An irony: an argument repeatedly trotted forth by the pro-Brexit crowd why we must not actually debate and appraise the wisdom of leaving is that it's anti-democratic to ignore the one-off result of the referendum, and yet presumably they are satisfied with Boris suspending parliament to push through his desired agenda.
The pro-Brexit crowd have gone from 'this is an opportunity to strike some great deals' and understanding that a no-deal Brexit would be a full-blown distaster to 'we'll get some kind of a deal' to 'we can still get a deal, but we have to be prepared for no deal' to 'no deal is a real possibility' to shutting down parliament to remove any potential barriers to a no-deal. This would appears to be an attempt to hinder democracy from the highest levels of government. No responsible government would consider a no-deal Brexit and yet here we are with Boris seemingly try to force this madness through.
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Richard Stevens Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004 Location: United States Posts: 1952
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Posted: 28 August 2019 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | 9
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Is the British public doing anything in case the process ends in a trade disaster? Stockpiling food and meds, etc.?
The whole thing just fills me with Y2K dread.
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15935
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Posted: 28 August 2019 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 10
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Yes: LINK
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Eric Sofer Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 January 2014 Location: United States Posts: 4789
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Posted: 28 August 2019 at 3:55pm | IP Logged | 11
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IF the process ends in disaster? I hope I'm wrong, but it surely seems inevitable.
I regretted it before and I regret it now; I still feel strongly that if the United States had a State Department, we might be able to help mediate this with a non-horrific result.
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4635
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Posted: 28 August 2019 at 4:13pm | IP Logged | 12
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I read this a few months back in The Independent
Donald Trump has made a last-minute Brexit intervention - claiming his administration is looking forward to "negotiating a large scale Trade Deal with the UK" - after reportedly being lobbied to do so by Nigel Farage.
The former UKIP (Independence Party) leader (Farage) allegedly told the US president to support the UK leaving the EU without a deal during a meeting in Washington
High-profile Brexiteers have long claimed a trade deal with the US would be one of the key benefits to breaking with the EU
So far this has played out as the script to the present day with Boris getting the Queen's signature to shut down Parliament for a month. Is it really possible that they are banking on the words of Trump in this??? And not only that, but words Farage put in Trump's mouth in a sense? WTF???
Edited by Rebecca Jansen on 28 August 2019 at 4:17pm
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