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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
Posts: 1717
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| Posted: 16 June 2019 at 2:41pm | IP Logged | 1
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The references are cute. Maybe too cute. But I think Alan Moore was right when he wrote WATCHMEN: in a world where superheroes exist (or at least Dr. Manhattan, who was presented as a superhero by the U.S. government), there probably wouldn't be superhero comics. Hence, pirate comics, which -- as far as I know -- have never been an ongoing comics genre.
Probably, "in-universe," the Marvel characters are referencing old superhero comics from the '40s no longer in publication. The Invaders weren't that large a group after all. Only Cap, Namor and the Torch were very famous in the U.S. (Union Jack wouldn't have been a big deal in the U.S., just the UK.)
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Adam Schulman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 22 July 2017
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| Posted: 16 June 2019 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | 2
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Thread drift -- one thing I've noticed over the years...
For all the adjustments to Superman's past in the years since 1986, nobody has ever wanted to bring back "Clark Kent, anchorman for WGBS TV."
This is a good thing. It was the ONE bad idea from Denny O'Neil's run on SUPERMAN. And so, of course, it was the one part that "stuck" through 1985!
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1686
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| Posted: 16 June 2019 at 6:17pm | IP Logged | 3
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I like the subtlety of the older references, because they're "cute" as Adam says - they're a clever in-joke you get if you're paying attention, but not overt.
Q for JB or any other pro if you feel like answering: has there ever been an official policy or guidelines at the majors regarding referencing the competition? I'd imagine not, as the common sense rule should have come into play: don't give the other guys free advertising.
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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 16 June 2019 at 8:27pm | IP Logged | 4
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This one's kind of a twofer
Lois, Clark and Julie
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John Cole
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 March 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 514
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| Posted: 16 June 2019 at 9:16pm | IP Logged | 5
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Don't forget Buried Alien in Quasar's book.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133741
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| Posted: 17 June 2019 at 6:15am | IP Logged | 6
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sighMark Gruenwald was a dear friend, but he REALLY needed to be at DC.
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Noah Smith
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Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1217
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| Posted: 17 June 2019 at 7:49am | IP Logged | 7
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I definitely remember Spider-Man visiting Flash Thompson when he was giving some kids a basketball lesson (this was late 80s/early 90s, Michelinie and Larson, I think). The kids said "You know Flash?" and he said "Sure, all us super heroes know each other. Later on he can pop his costume out of his ring for you."
Around the same time, I remember Ben Grimm and Sharon Ventura going on a date to see the first Michael Keaton Batman movie.
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
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| Posted: 17 June 2019 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 8
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"Buried Alien," later "Fastforward," a hero with ties to a force called "Hyperspeed," was a weird, weird idea: an amnesiac speedster from a parallel continuum who vaguely remembered having been killed before somehow arriving in the Marvel Universe. It wasn't just a passing reference to a DC character, such as when Barry and Iris appeared on the Carmine Infantino-homage cover of Marvel Team-Up 121. It was a coy attempt to co-opt another company's abandoned intellectual property and publish it at Marvel as a recurring character. Gruenwald was basically saying, "Well, if you guys don't want to use Barry anymore, we'll take him!" Fortunately, he only showed up twice that I know of.
In his second appearance, he raced alongside a team of Marvel speedsters from across the cosmos. One of these was essentially the Energizer Bunny, portrayed here as a cheating son-of-a-*****, yet not "done away with" at the end of the story. Fastforward left the MU to find his home again, but Fooferah is still there somewhere running around, hurling his drum and underhandedly sabotaging his opponents.
Marvel could bring him back again to fight alongside Howard the Duck foe "Greedy Killerwatt" and the intergalactic pastry chef from Marvel Team-Up 137 who wanted to bake planetary-scale "Twinkle" cakes to satiate the hunger of Galactus. They could become "The Madison Avenue Avengers!"
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 17 June 2019 at 11:07am | IP Logged | 9
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SO “meta”.
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Brian Miller
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Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31350
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| Posted: 17 June 2019 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 10
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I’ve seen that MT-U cover hundreds of times. I remember buying it off the spinner rack. I never knew that was Barry and Iris on the cover. Wow.
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Brian Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
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| Posted: 17 June 2019 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 11
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Side note: this is one popular thread to peek into, apparently.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 17 June 2019 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 12
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In a simpler world, we'd KNOW that Marvel and DC characters exist in the same universe, and have since the first Superman/Spider-Man team up. ••• At the risk of turning this into a Dump on Gruenie thread, I’m sure you know he HAD to explain the crossovers. HAD to. It would have broken his brain not to.
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