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Greg McPhee Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 August 2004 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 5094
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Posted: 30 July 2018 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 1
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For me, the purest, proper version of the Hulk is the one that we can all relate to. The one that inspired Ken Johnson to take the ball and run with it for the TV series: “Within each of us, ofttimes, there dwells and mighty and raging fury”. In other words, the Hulk is Banner’s normal, human anger and repression multiplied by a factor of about a million, which develops its own personality and memories. Connected to Banner, yet not Banner. His dark side made flesh.=======================================================
Kenneth Johnson and his writers got the concept of Banner and The Hulk more than some of the comic book writers did.
The series went to great pains in episodes like "The Pilot", "The First Parts 1 and 2" and "Dark Side" to show that while The Hulk was a different personality and set of memories from Banner, he retained everything that was good and compassionate about Banner. Banner was not a dark person, so The Hulk wasn't either.
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 30 July 2018 at 9:18am | IP Logged | 2
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Kenneth Johnson and his writers got the concept of Banner and The Hulk more than some of the comic book writers did.
The series went to great pains in episodes like "The Pilot", "The First Parts 1 and 2" and "Dark Side" to show that while The Hulk was a different personality and set of memories from Banner, he retained everything that was good and compassionate about Banner. Banner was not a dark person, so The Hulk wasn't either. +++++++
Exactly. The Hulk was not a killer because Banner was not a killer, as the pilot took great pains to establish. He was essentially Banner’s primal rage, a creature of pure instinct who was driven to deal with whatever stimuli had angered Banner. But, the childlike, curious, compassionate side of the creature was also seen, from time to time, just as with the comic character.
I think a big part of the Hulk’s appeal, like many of the classic Universal monsters before him, is that he’s a sympathetic monster. Misunderstood, brought into a world he never made, and just wanting to be left alone and find peace. Of course, the irony is that if he does find peace, he reverts back to Banner and ceases to exist.
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 30 July 2018 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 3
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Both drag in coincidences that did not exist before -- Banner was "prepared" to become the Hulk by his life up to that point. (DC retconned Two-Face the same way.) I much prefer the idea that "inside all of us there ofttimes dwells a mighty and raging fury." +++++++
Agreed. It greatly adds to the relatability of the character. Banner is a good, sane person with the sort of normal, everyday, repressed anger which we all have, but it’s externalized and amplified by the radioactive accident that turns him into the Hulk. It’s very potent on a metaphorical level. Making him crazy and predestined to become the Hulk makes him far less relatable.
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Stéphane Garrelie Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 August 2005 Location: France Posts: 4226
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Posted: 30 July 2018 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 4
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One of the posters i had on the door of my room as a child: the first Hulk Movie (The Pilot was released in theaters here)
The Hulk from the TV Show is the first one i met. When i read the comicbook, a Len Wein story, i was surprised by the differences, but still enjoyed it a lot.
As for Peter David's version, i enjoyed it, but it wasn't Hulk to me. More like a green Superman that doesn't fly or a green Doc Savage, with some psychoanalytic explanation or pretext.
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 30 July 2018 at 9:25am | IP Logged | 5
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Hey, gee, that’s based on the Bob Larkin book cover painting!
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Stéphane Garrelie Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 August 2005 Location: France Posts: 4226
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Posted: 30 July 2018 at 9:31am | IP Logged | 6
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Yep. Didn't know the name of the penciler, but was aware of the drawing. (I met the movie poster first though.)
Edited by Stéphane Garrelie on 30 July 2018 at 9:32am
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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7526
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Posted: 30 July 2018 at 12:18pm | IP Logged | 7
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Okay, I'm a couple of pages late...
Matt Reed: ;Andrew, is this the page you're thinking of? HULK #318. This image was scanned from HULK VISIONARIES: JOHN BYRNE
***
That's the very one! Maybe I had the arm placement a bit different in my memory...
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Olav Bakken Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 June 2014 Posts: 241
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Posted: 30 July 2018 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 8
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"A symptom of an all too common fanboy disorder: EVERYTHING MUST BE EXPLAINED!!"
The problem with spinning too many threads of explanations is that you end up getting trapped in the tangled mass of your own web.
Sometimes fanboys grow up to become comic book writers, and if given free hands, fanfiction may become canon. Not a problem if the fiction is good, but if they still have the need to dissect, analyze and putting everything under the microscope to come up with a credible explanation for every superpower and phenomena, it takes the focus away from the actual concept of the comic.
It's claimed that the source of how Hulk and Banner is able to gain and lose body mass and show great strength came from The Official Handbook to the Marvel Universe. I haven't read that edition myself, so I can't tell. But apparently we are talking about some extra dimensional source of energy that is connected to Hulk and other Marvel characters with similar abilities. They draw energy from this pocket dimension when changing, converting it to mass and use to the rest to fuel their muscles, and when changing back the extra mass is converted to energy again and flows back to the hidden dimension.
As for Hulk's color change; wasn't the reason that it was nearly impossible to get the grey color right in those days, and when one issue ended up with giving him green skin on a page, they said something like "what the hell, just make him green".
Edited by Olav Bakken on 30 July 2018 at 5:29pm
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Rebecca Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 February 2018 Location: Canada Posts: 4635
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Posted: 30 July 2018 at 3:38pm | IP Logged | 9
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Brian Hague: "...and Marie's at Crazy..."
I loved Marie's Teen Hulk in Crazy! Too few people know of it I think. Mostly I remember from Cracked the janitor character in paintings really too good for the subject, like all Norman Mingo's Alfred E. Newmans when you've seen his other work minus the gap toothed one. When you've seen John Severin's Two-Fisted Tales, Aces High and Valor (or Melvin Of the Apes in that early Mad) at E.C. it seemed a shame he was doing something so much lighter.
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 30 July 2018 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | 10
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Sadly, E.C. wasn't publishing at that time and Cracked was a decent paycheck. As a kid, I loved seeing Severin's gift for humor and likenesses in each issue of Cracked. I agree that his work for E.C. was something to see, but I think his Cracked work has much to recommend it as well.
And Marie's gift for humor was even more extraordinary. Hers is some of the most creative, antic stuff I've ever seen. So much fun!
As a kid, I wanted Marie's Teen Hulk, Chester Weems, to team up with the teenage Benjy Grimm from "Fred and Barney Meet the Thing."
"Thing Ring, Do Your Thing!" meets "Mean Green!"
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2374
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Posted: 30 July 2018 at 3:58pm | IP Logged | 11
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In my 40+ years of reading comics, it became clear to me that there are basically two kinds of writers--CONSTRUCTIONISTS and DECONSTRUCTIONISTS. The history of comics is a battle between these two--the Builders and the Destroyers. They go back and forth on the various titles, "fixing" each others' "mistakes."
Stan Lee, Steve Ditko, and Jack Kirby were obviously Constructionists--they were building the foundations of Marvel--all the heroes and villains of THE FANTASTIC FOUR, SPIDER-MAN, THOR, etc. As late as the 80's, Frank Miller was a Constructionist when he gave us Elektra, Stick, and the Hand in DAREDEVIL; Simonson was Constructing over in THOR with Beta Ray Bill, Malekith and the Dark Elves, etc.; and Byrne was a Constructionist in FANTASTIC FOUR, giving us new stories based on the original premise, exploring the Negative Zone, explaining Galactus, etc. These were great runs, but then something faded and I found myself moving to the Independents, and all of those--ROCKETEER, AMERICAN FLAGG, NEXT MEN, HELLBOY, etc. were all new and fascinating--the creators HAD to Construct from the ground up.
And then there are the Deconstructionists. At DC, these were a lot of the British writers who didn't even like comics and had to find radical ways to make them "relevent" or weird. Deconstructionists include the Archaeologists who write 20-part "epics" based on coloring mistakes; Deconstructionists kill beloved characters with plenty of story potential left just to get a sales bump and make a name for themselves; they include the "Everything you know is a lie" writers. Deconstructionists have to comment on, change, reverse, etc. everything that the Constructionists--the actual Builders of Comics--worked hard to establish.
The Grey Hulk/"Banner was abused" period of THE INCREDIBLE HULK was all Deconstructionist. Everything you know (about Banner and why the Hulk is angry) is a lie, but the grey color of one issue (which was UNMENTIONED in the text/dialogue) becomes a guiding factor of the series for decades! When Bruce Jones took over as writer in 2001, it was a return to Construction and it made big, good news.
Since CRISIS at DC and about the same amount of time at Marvel (though perhaps not as pervasive), the Big Two have mostly been Deconstructionist, commenting on/revising/destroying things that took decades of hard work to Construct. (The Marvel movies have been so popular because they are firmly in the Constructionist phase. Once they start Deconstructing, you will see them start to fail.)
Edited by Eric Jansen on 30 July 2018 at 4:10pm
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Valmor J. Pedretti Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 October 2011 Location: Brazil Posts: 786
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Posted: 30 July 2018 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | 12
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Did John Buscema ever draw the Hulk on a full comic book issue?
After seeing it on that pin up on a post above I got curious. Not that it should surprise me at all, but his green goliath looks...incredible!
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