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Sam Karns
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7624
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| Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:19pm | IP Logged | 1
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Which movie are you referring to?
***************
Superman 1-4. I thought the studio simply replayed the same music in every installment.
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Zaki Hasan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8105
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| Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:47pm | IP Logged | 2
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Sam Karns wrote:
Superman 1-4. I thought the studio simply replayed the same music in every installment. |
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John Williams only did the score for the first film. When Donner
was shown the door, Williams chose not to return for the sequel.
His themes were re-worked and re-orchestrated by Ken Thorne for II and
III. You can tell if you listen to the opening theme of SUPERMAN
II and compare it to SUPERMAN I, as it sounds like a watered-down
version of the original. For SUPERMAN IV, they brought in
Alexander Courage (he of the STAR TREK theme), who once again primarily
worked with the themes composed by John Williams.
I'm guessing that the use of the same theme throughout the series is
one of the reasons that Superman and the John Williams theme are so
inextricably linked in the eyes of the general public.
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Eric Kleefeld
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Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 20 April 2005 at 11:57pm | IP Logged | 3
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My favorite scene in the first Superman is when he made his public
debut saving Lois from the helicopter accident. What made it for
me was the narration of the TV reporter and the screaming of the crowd,
plus Lois's line "You've got me? Who's got you?" Even
though we all knew how it would turn out, and even though we're all
used to the concept of Superman, it was done so artfully that we shared
the fictional crowd's shock and amazement at what they were seeing, as
if we were all encountering Superman for the very first time.
Looking at that scene really impresses upon me how seriously Donner
took his source material and how skillfully he went about directing
it. We don't see enough of that.
edit to add: When Christopher Reeve died I took out my DVD,
almost reflexively, and played back that scene. Something about
watching it both lightened my heart and amplified my grief, the feeling
that the Superman who I was introduced to as a little kid was gone.
Edited by Eric Kleefeld on 21 April 2005 at 12:00am
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Sam Karns
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7624
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| Posted: 21 April 2005 at 12:04am | IP Logged | 4
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We don't see enough of that.
*******
If you mean we don't see enough of that today? Yes! God Yes! I still have the book titled Marvels. The work done by Alex Ross were wonderful, I wish a filmmaker could present superheroes like Ross did, but Donner was the closest. It was a spectacle that will be etched in my brain forever.
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Lars Johansson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6113
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| Posted: 21 April 2005 at 1:27am | IP Logged | 5
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Zaki Hasan wrote:
| John Williams only did the score for the first film. When Donner
was shown the door, Williams chose not to return for the sequel.
His themes were re-worked and re-orchestrated by Ken Thorne for II and
III. You can tell if you listen to the opening theme of SUPERMAN
II and compare it to SUPERMAN I, as it sounds like a watered-down
version of the original. For SUPERMAN IV, they brought in
Alexander Courage (he of the STAR TREK theme), who once again primarily
worked with the themes composed by John Williams. |
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Not really correct I believe, though I'm not sure. John Williams was
back making new music for Superman IV according to the title sequence.
The new tunes composed by Williams are probably, I don't know exactly,
a new theme for Atom Man and another tune that I don't remember.
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Zaki Hasan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8105
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| Posted: 21 April 2005 at 1:55am | IP Logged | 6
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Lars Johansson wrote:
Not really correct I believe, though I'm not sure. John Williams was
back making new music for Superman IV according to the title sequence.
The new tunes composed by Williams are probably, I don't know exactly,
a new theme for Atom Man and another tune that I don't remember.
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You're not wrong. Here's the best info available, courtesy of Superman Cinema:
The main titles stated "Music by John Williams"; however, specifically
for this soundtrack it is almost absolutely the responsibility of Alexander
Courage, who in the same titles appear credited with the following description:
"Music Adapted and Conducted by Alexander Courage" (the music
for "Superman II" had a title credit in a similar form).
According to official information John Williams accepted the responsibility
of composing the music for this film; however, his contribution was only
reduced to the composition of a pair of new themes for the sequel ("Lacy's
Theme" and "Nuclear Man's Theme"), while the rest of the
work had been delegated to Alexander Courage, who prepared the cues and
orchestrations, based obviously on the original compositions from Williams.
In other words, the music is mostly crap because John Williams had next
to nothing to do with it (oddly, or perhaps not, I always did like the
Nuclear Man theme...now I know why).
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Ed Deans.
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Joined: 28 November 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 857
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| Posted: 21 April 2005 at 2:36am | IP Logged | 7
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Thanks for that info. I wasn't around for the old boards. I'm glad to
see someone's taking us "newbies" under their wing. Some boards are a
bit more, how can I put it? Hostile.
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Jason Carpenter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 430
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| Posted: 21 April 2005 at 8:17am | IP Logged | 8
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Gerry Turnbull wrote:
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ive been promised a copy of this, all being well,if im not let down, id happily run off a couple of copies.
what do you all think?
Gerry
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Add me to that list. LOL
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Jason Carpenter
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 430
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| Posted: 21 April 2005 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 9
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Matt Reed wrote:
| SUPERMAN IV is bad. If you like it, that's cool. You're just a fan of a bad movie. No shame in that. But to try and say it's something other than bad is like saying crap is anything other than what it is. No amount of restoration is gonna turn this sidewalk drawing into a Michelangelo fresco. |
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Urmmm, what is Michaelangelo came along and refined the drawing and making it his own work? I mean, Lucas' wife SAVED Star Wars from being a disaster.
Jason
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Zaki Hasan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8105
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| Posted: 21 April 2005 at 10:36am | IP Logged | 10
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Ed Deans. wrote:
Thanks for that info. I wasn't around for the old boards. I'm glad to
see someone's taking us "newbies" under their wing. Some boards are a
bit more, how can I put it? Hostile.
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Happy to help. :-)
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Lars Johansson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6113
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| Posted: 21 April 2005 at 11:03am | IP Logged | 11
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Matt Reed wrote:
| SUPERMAN IV is bad. If you like it, that's cool. You're just a fan of a bad movie. No shame in that. But to try and say it's something other than bad is like saying crap is anything other than what it is. No amount of restoration is gonna turn this sidewalk drawing into a Michelangelo fresco. |
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Matt, this cover is clearly the sidewalk drawing if anything. I am really worried what has been done to improve the movie when it comes to editing for example. (As a sidenote, look what the artist has done, look at the S emblema there at the top left corner - I have cropped the image - a "Superman Lives" S or what?)
Zaki Hasan (who also provided some facts and an excellent link to a movie site, look above) wrote:
| ...In other words, the music is mostly crap because John Williams had next to nothing to do with it (oddly, or perhaps not, I always did like the Nuclear Man theme...now I know why). |
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Thanks a lot. So a better DVD would be at least including John Williams restored music that he actually composed for the Superman movies, such as those themes.
This lost scene, with the right theme music, is not Michelangelo but a lot better than the drawing above it.
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Brian Miller
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Joined: 28 July 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 31161
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| Posted: 21 April 2005 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 12
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To this day, I have never seen Superman IV. Doesn't sound like I've missed much.
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Topic Closed)
